LGBTQ+ Narratives and the Power of Inclusive Storytelling with Crazy as a Loon’s Lisa Cordileone and Shaan Dasani

00:00:10 - Jackie Ferguson

Welcome to season 10 of Diversity beyond the Checkbox, proudly presented by the Diversity Movement. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, author, business leader, and human rights advocate. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the stories of trailblazers, game changers, and glass ceiling breakers who share insights and professional success and personal development. Thank you for being part of this amazing community. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Diversity beyond the Checkbox, the podcast where we explore diversity, equity, inclusion, and belonging through the lens of leaders, innovators, and change makers. Today's episode is a special treat. We're releasing it between seasons, and it's one you won't want to miss. We're joined today by Lisa Cordileone and Shaan Dasani, the creative forces behind Crazy as a Loon, a heartfelt and boundary pushing film shot in Charlotte, North Carolina. Their film delves into themes of identity, resilience, and belonging, told through a lens that celebrates authenticity and creativity. In this conversation, we'll explore the journey behind Crazy as a Loon and learn more about our guests, their creative partnership, and their thoughts on representation in media. Okay, let's dive in. Lisa and Shaan, thank you so much for being here today.

00:01:36 - Shaan Dasani

Thank you, Jackie. Great to be here.

00:01:38 - Jackie Ferguson

Yes. I'm so glad to have you both with me. So let's start with just a little bit about each of you. Can you share a bit about your personal journeys, how you got into filmmaking, and what shapes your creative vision?

00:01:53 - Lisa Cordileone

That's a big one right out of the gate. All right, Shaan, I'll dive in. I came up through the theater, but I'll fast forward a bit. I lived in Chicago for a long time and worked on stage and knew that I wanted to make the jump to TV and film and got connected with local filmmakers in Chicago. And then when I moved to la, got connected again and really started producing things independently and started to understand the power of representation in the LGBTQ community. And that has shaped my creative vision and my writing, which is now expanding into the history of women and the history of women in tech. So it just keeps expanding further and further to tell stories about hidden figures that we never learned about in school. So that's. That's where I'm at in my journey right now.

00:02:40 - Jackie Ferguson

Thanks, Lisa.

00:02:41 - Shaan Dasani

Yeah, so I grew up in Fayetteville, which is a military town in North Carolina. It's the fourth largest, I think, metropolitan area in. In the state. And my family's from India, so child of immigrants. You know, my dad came over. I was born in Fayetteville, and I have a very, very, very big Family. It's. It's like if you ever saw my Big Fat Greek Wedding, except we're Indian, you know, and so growing up in. In a town like Fayetteville, I didn't have tons of other South Asian or Indian community around. I mean, Indian in North Carolina was Native American, first American, and that's not. That's not the same. So very quickly, I was trying to blend in, just blend in. That was my M.O. as a kid growing up. And I was drawn to storytelling because I saw it as a way that, you know, people could connect to other people whose experiences were different than their own. And very young as a kid, you know, we would put on. My cousins and I would put on these shows for our family. Like if there was a wedding going on or, you know, someone's birthday celebration, and we. I would just end up being the one who would write and then naturally cast myself as the lead because, yeah, there you go. So that was. That was my upbringing. And then I. I ended up going to California to study film. I. I went to film school. I did production over there. Which production is everything kind of nuts and bolts? How do you actually, once you're on set, what are the steps you need to actually make that project come to life? And I worked in production for a while. I ended up kind of being bicoastal for seven years or so. My sister and I were in business together in a completely different industry, real estate. We did some real estate work together. And then about 10 years ago, I got into acting. So I've been acting for the last 10 years, doing a little bit of theater. Similar journey to Lisa, where when you're an actor, you know, you kind of do a little bit of everything. You do some commercials, do some voiceover indie stuff. And then in the last two years, I really wanted to put my producing hat back on. I met Lisa at a film festival about a year and a half ago out here in North Carolina. Actually. It was the Outsout Film Fest, which happens in Durham. And I had another project screening over there, which was a spy movie. I had that screening going on, and then we just started talking. Lisa was volunteering by chance, volunteering at that festival. And we started talking about a project that she had. And at the time, the writer strike was going on and the actors strike was going on, which maybe folks in North Carolina know about it, maybe they don't. But our. Our industry was essentially shut down because nobody was working. The studios were negotiating with the unions and trying to get. Get to a place where everybody could Thrive. You know, I was at the crux of that conversation. So because we were in such a standstill, I was just here in North Carolina, where my family is, and Lisa and I started talking about potentially working on. On a project together. And she had this great script, and. And we just got to work. We wanted to do what we like to do, so we started.

00:05:44 - Jackie Ferguson

I love it. So both of you have very impressive backgrounds in the creative arts. Tell us some of the milestones in your careers that you're particularly proud of.

00:05:55 - Lisa Cordileone

Oh, man. I think getting in it. I've heard so many no's. I'm like, which ones were yeses along the way? All those grad school auditions I think I had. Getting into Second City in Chicago was, you know, the training there was outstanding. I was there for three years, training, doing improv and music. Improv. Getting to screen our feature film at the Castro Theater for Frameline many years ago was probably one of the most memorable experiences I've ever had. It's the first film festival I ever got into, like 12 or 13 years ago. And to go back a second time and see a line of people up Market street and in the Castro, I mean, it's pretty. It was amazing to be in that theater with the history of our community in San Francisco. To be there and just sitting in the back and watching people, you know, thankfully laugh, because it was a comedy. Thankfully laugh at the film. And this past year was a very. Was a personal highlight. Making Crazy as a Loon is the project I'd have to say I'm most proud of. Which is. Which is great because we're always growing and excelling and working to get better. And I think, you know, Shaan pushed me, our producers, Morgan pushed me, our director, Monica pushed me. Everyone pushed me. And I surround myself with people. I push them, and they push me right back. And I think that. I think we made something really special. And so I'm really proud of Crazy as a Loon. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:07:24 - Shaan Dasani

I'd say so. I think, you know, Lisa kind of says it jokingly, but it's true that there are so many no's in our industry that every one. Yes. I mean, it's literally, I don't know, maybe 100 or 1,000 to 1 ratio. It's. It's a lot. When I first started acting, I thought, you know, I was excited. Like any new actor. It's like, oh, you know, you're finally doing the thing that you really want to do. And I had a friend of mine at that point, I had Been working behind the scenes in production, and I had enough friends who were actors, and I had a friend of mine who told me how to deal with rejection. And he said, you go into the audition, you do your best, and as soon as you step out, you forget it ever happened. And that way, you're not sitting there thinking about it an hour later, two hours later, the next day, just waiting for that phone to ring, because chances are it's not going to ring. And you can't. You can't measure your value or your worth based on whether or not that phone rings. So now, after 10 years of doing it, I think finally this year, I stopped caring as much. But it took all that time. I'll tell you about one of my first milestones in a TV audition, and I'll tell you this, because I think a lot of people probably know the show, but I didn't have a theatrical. I didn't have an agent who was representing me for film and tv, yet I did have one for commercials, and they had a film and TV department. So they get this audition come through. It's for Criminal Minds Beyond Borders and Criminal Minds. Probably a lot of people know that show. This was a spin off of that show. My agent had told me, look, if you book this, we'll think about maybe bringing you over to our film and TV site. So I was like, okay. So the character was a. He lives in Bangladesh. He's a cab driver out there. And in the first, like, five minutes of the episode, he dies. Like, okay. I was like, great, let's do it. So I did the tape. I did it on tape. And I think a day or two later, I got a call back. I got the call back, and that was my first TV anything. I was so excited. So I get the call back, and as soon as I get there, the director says, we don't want to audition you for the cab driver. We want to audition you for the head of the gang. And I was like, okay, okay. So I did the audition. And by the way, he's speaking a language that I don't speak. It's Bangladeshi, and I don't speak Bangladeshi. And I think for the purpose of the tape, it was in English. So I did it in English, ended up booking it. Okay, booked it. And then when we get to set, the director told me he was. He was about 78 years old. He was a French guy, and he had directed some, like Superman back in the day. Like, you know. So he comes up to me and he says, do you know why you Got the role. So I said, why? And he said, because you're short. And it's always the short guys that have the brains. And he himself was about 5, 2, and he was the director of the episode. I was like, I hear you. I know exactly what you mean.

00:10:38 - Jackie Ferguson

Hilarious.

00:10:39 - Shaan Dasani

And to me, it was just, you know, it was one of these things. Exciting, for sure, but I think one of these things where, you know, everybody looks different. And it's very easy as an actor to be put in a box, as a filmmaker to be put in a box. And it's you that has to. You have to see that, but also learn to unsee that so you can realize your full potential of what you can do creatively. Because we're not just our bodies where we're our minds too. And I think we have to really think about what we can actually do that's going to surprise people and really move and motivate people. And that's one thing that I really love about my creative partnership with Lisa, because she was asking me to take a chance on her. We had just met, and she's one of the few people that I think I've gotten a chance to work with that's so driven by passion and the passion she has for the stories that she wants to tell that she really won't take no for an answer. That's the bottom line.

00:11:33 - Lisa Cordileone

I'm a producer, very much so.

00:11:36 - Shaan Dasani

And I think in the last year since we worked together, I' really, it's. It's forced me to grow again, which is what we all need.

00:11:45 - Lisa Cordileone

Well, can I just. Really quick, I just want to add to that. When you get no from the industry, because you can't control. You can't control what you can't control, which is a lot in this industry. And if you're independently producing, you can control a lot more than you think you can. And if you can control the things that you can control, do your best to not take no for an answer at every turn. Because I. I need three no's before I think it's a no. And even then, and I, we, we wrote about this is I'll still probably send you a passionate letter after a third no so that you know, I'm taking a huge swing here and how important it is that I'm reaching out to you because I'm getting no's all over the place. So I'm going to need you to say yes. And that, and that's where it comes from is like, it's just another step in the Process of getting the story told, getting it made. And so that's, you know, that's where it comes from.

00:12:37 - Jackie Ferguson

That's amazing advice for filmmaking, but also in life, right? Don't worry about what you can't control, but what you can control. Like, really dig into it, be tenacious about it. And I think that's just great life advice. So thank you for that. That's awesome. Let's talk a little about your creative process. So how have your creative styles evolved over the years, and how did those experiences inform the work that you do today?

00:13:09 - Shaan Dasani

I think I went through a huge personal life transformation about 10 years ago, which is why I got into acting. So I'm a trans man. And before acknowledging that identity for myself, I go back and I watch some of the earlier films that I did, and I feel like there was a part of me. Even though it's stuff I'm really proud of, I feel like there was a part of me that was always a little afraid to really, like, peel back the onion and be very honest with the work, or maybe unwilling to broach queer identity or trans identity. In the work that I was doing, I could touch on South Asian identity because that was, in my mind that was safe to talk about. I also had a community there of people that I could pull experiences from. But at the time, I didn't really know any other, like, queer and trans folks that I was really felt safe and comfortable with. But I think that, you know, whatever one's identity journey or personal journey is, or personal truths are, the more honest we are about those things with ourselves, we just make that kind of work that's a little bit more brave and connects with people in a way that I think goes just past that, like, surface level difference that we might have with each other. You know, I. Different project, but I just acted in a film where the character is. He's a trans guy and he's a part of the Muslim community, and I'm not. But I think having this experience, like this was the first time getting a chance to play these, you know, things that I think a lot of people might think are, you know, I don't know, somewhat opposite of each other. Like someone who's of great spiritual faith but also trans. Like, for me personally, like, those things come hand in hand. I don't think that's the perception in our society out there, but I think, like, being able to, like, find these places of honesty and authenticity within myself have just opened up channels to be able to find other creatives that are doing that kind of work. And I think that that constantly pushes me to go further and further to see, like, what is the most honest human experience I can find in this piece of work. And I think that's. That's definitely a shift that I hope continues to grow the more I keep going.

00:15:43 - Jackie Ferguson

Absolutely. And, you know, that's fantastic to think about that authenticity piece. Right. We. The more authentic we are with ourselves, the more we can give to our work in our personal lives and our families and our communities. And I think that's, you know, just good advice for us in general. Thank you for sharing that, Lisa.

00:16:06 - Lisa Cordileone

I mean, you know, I'm an emotional basket. I mean, I'm such a creative. I am such a creative. I don't know where to start. But I will say that I'm someone who. I've realized over the years, especially with the pandemic and things. I'm someone who hides out a lot. You know, I'm pretty quiet and pretty solitary until I'm not. Until I'm ready, I have something to say. And then I fight like hell to get something made, and I use my art to do that. Like, I'm not someone who posts on social media about my life because it's just not as interesting, I think, as the stories I want to tell and explore. So I am always focused on the work, and the work, for me is just an extension of my heart, and that's why I'm so passionate about it. I'm someone. I'll go back to this. I'm someone who hides. And so I've been finding the exploration of characters, particularly in this piece and what I've been writing lately as a woman who is braver than myself, I think, in many ways, and someone I look up to, and that's the role I wrote for myself, is like, she's my hero. And that comes with, like, well, Shaan was there on set. I was pretty emotional during our shoot. And I. You know, I even see that in Shaan's work when I saw a piece of Shaan's film. You know, that depth of vulnerability that we carry as actors, I think it's so important to showcase that. And one of the things I've realized over the years is I think the reason I'm deepening my vulnerability and my acting work is because I know more about who I am than ever before. I'm less scared to show that. I feel less shame about being gay. I feel less shame about being a woman. All that stuff that I've carried around that I didn't even know, I carried around for a long time and acting, to me has always felt like the place for honesty and truth. And it's the place where I feel like I can be 100% honest. Not that I'm not honest in my day to day life. I'm just saying in life we put a facade on, we do our best, we power through the days. When I'm working as an actor, I feel like I have a safe space to be completely honest and it's to me the greatest space to be in. So that's why keep fighting to do the work. Because it is a glorious feeling to be honest a hundred percent and not shy away from that, not hide. So I'll just, I'll leave it at that, I guess. I don't know if that makes sense.

00:18:31 - Jackie Ferguson

Thank you both for that. You know, it's. It's so important and it's. We're going to get into the project, right? But it's so important to amplify your voices and share your passion and share your authenticity and your identities. I think that that's so important for other people to see that, feel that, experience that. So thank you both. Let's talk a little about Crazy as a Loon. So what inspired the story of Crazy as a Loon and how did the two of you come together to bring that to life? Tell us a little about that process.

00:19:07 - Lisa Cordileone

Well, that's, I mean, that goes back to hiding out, you know, in my apartment in West Hollywood for a year during the pandemic. And I was like, what are all. Everyone feels shut out from society right now. And this was during George Floyd and Breonna Taylor. I mean, there was like a lot going on in the streets in la. It was a very. That year, man, was really intense. Being alone in. Being alone in like a city, like for anyone. But being alone in West Hollywood, in my little apartment, I was like, what are other reasons that people would have been shut out from society? And I started doing research and I was looking up all the. And I knew I wanted to. I knew I wanted to tell a story about women from like the 1950s. And I had heard that women got committed for different reasons. And there were all kinds of reasons that a woman could be committed to an institution. I won't go into them, but there was any. I mean, your brother, your husband, your father could have you committed and you would just be locked away. And I was like, what? So I started exploring this and then I did some research and stumbled onto the lavender scare and realized that overlap between Women and the queer community and how the lavender scare was a time in our country's history when people who worked for the government who were suspected to be queer were kind of, you know, hunted down and interrogated because it was thought they. They could be blackmailed easily by communists for secrets if they had a high clearance level and they worked for the government. So I started digging into that research, and this story kind of came from that. So that's. That was the beginning of it. Kind of roundabout way to get there, but I like history.

00:20:46 - Shaan Dasani

And I don't know if we've talked about it already, but, Lisa, I don't know if you want to share kind of like the logline of what the film is.

00:20:53 - Lisa Cordileone

Yeah, I mean, the logline is. I mean, right on. Okay. So I don't have the log line memorized, but to me, it's. They're celebrating. A family is celebrating their son's sixth birthday party, and their home is being staked out by an underground government unit that has been tasked with keeping an eye on my character Mary, who's been named as a homosexual.

00:21:16 - Shaan Dasani

Yeah, the tension really lives with that, like, what's happening inside the house with what's happening outside the house. There's a government unit is outside staking out this family, and they're having a happy birthday celebration, you know, and so the audience is constantly, like, on pins and needles to see, well, what's about to happen to them if they're going to get found out.

00:21:35 - Lisa Cordileone

And I'll say the conceit of this is that the inside of the house, on the inside of the house, they've cut out the interior of the closets. They live in a row house in Georgetown, in D.C. so the family has cut out the interior closets so that they can pass between the apartments. So from the inside of the house, they feel normal. And they're a family of two different couples and a child. But from the outside of the house, they look like a male, female, like a husband and wife with a kid and another couple who lives next door, when, in fact, the two men live together and the two women live together. So it's what you see from the inside and the outside are two very different worlds. And they've created this safe space for them to be who they are at home together.

00:22:16 - Shaan Dasani

So this is. This is interesting because when Lisa first told me about this, and she told me this is based on true events, and this was a period of time called the Lavender scare, and I didn't know anything about this, I know there are A lot of people that do, but I certainly didn't know about it. And the fact that it felt like so such a recent part of our history was really compelling to me. This was. It started in the late 1940s, these policies, I guess. And Lisa told me that technically these policies were in place all the way up until Obama repealed Don't Ask, don't tell in 2010. And that. That blew my mind. And I thought, you know, it's one of these things where if you don't know your history, you're bound to repeat it. I mean, look at what's happening right now, you know. And so again, because, you know, when we started talking about it and she told me, hey, this is. It's a 1950s period piece. You know, it's a political suspense drama. And I had never, you know, I was just starting to produce again, but I'd never done a period piece before. You know, we started talking about it, and I just thought, this is going to be a really interesting, you know, challenge to have, but let's. Let's see what we can do. And we talked about, it's set in Washington, D.C. but both of us being from North Carolina, we were like, well, can we film here? Can we film here? Can we find the right location here? Most of the story is set in this row house, which is what kind of Georgetown, you know, vibes to it. So we're like, can we find something like that here? We could match the, like, if we could find the exterior architecture. We had a feeling we could find the interior because those two didn't have to be the same location for us, filming wise. So we decided this was like January this year. We decided by January we were like, well, if we can find the right location for the outside, we can. We're sure we can get everything else. So we started looking in Charlotte. I think we talked to the Charlotte Film Commission, we talked to Wilmington, and I think we tried talking to Winston Salem as well.

00:24:20 - Lisa Cordileone

Yeah, like old Salem, by and large.

00:24:23 - Shaan Dasani

Our friend in Charlotte, they just. They had the. They had a great database of locations. They had contact information up to date. Both of us were in Raleigh. I was going back and forth between Raleigh and Los Angeles, and I thought it's going to be easy to make these phone calls. So we ended up finding the right exterior location in Charlotte, and then from there we just started looking for our interiors. And then we knew we don't have to film this in Washington D.C. or in Northern Virginia. We can actually shoot this movie here. And, you know, one One thing kind of led to another with the production side of things. We started assembling our crew. You know, we found our crew. Like, there's a great database on the North Carolina film. I think it's called filmnc.com on the website. There's a crew database there. Charlotte had its own crew database as well. So just started making phone calls to see who was interested in helping us get this project made. So started taking all those steps. Yeah.

00:25:18 - Lisa Cordileone

Do you see? This is why I needed Shaan, because I need boots on the ground. Like, he has a production background that and I've learned on the fly. And I knew this script was too complicated for me to produce on my own. I would have been. There's no way I could have done it without Shaan and without Morgan and our whole team. I mean, this is a tricky one. You know, it's not just a quick, short film. There was a lot of elements to it. Yeah.

00:25:43 - Jackie Ferguson

I love that you had, you know, so much help and a wonderful team just helping along the way to make it come to life. That's fantastic. Well, Shaan, you hit my other question, which is, how did you decide to go to Charlotte? Right. Because when we think about films, we think of New York, maybe Atlanta, definitely la. But it's interesting, right, to do a short film here in North Carolina. So I think it's really interesting. How did you find that the people around you responded in that area as you were filming?

00:26:16 - Lisa Cordileone

I don't know if you wanted. I mean, the neighborhood was so helpful, I think. Shaan. I don't know. You mentioned that. I also want to just really quick say the reason we also shot in Charlotte is there's an international airport there, a huge airport. So that made it very easy to bring folks in from New York and LA and New Orleans and different places. It was a lot easier to get to set by flying people into Charlotte. So that was also a benefit to us. But, Shaan. Yeah, if you want to.

00:26:39 - Shaan Dasani

Yeah. You know, producers, first of all, producers do so many different things on set. This was Lisa's baby, and she was really wearing that hat of, how do I get the money for this? And really focus on the fundraising side. And I think she did an incredible job, and I, you know, obviously helped out with things like that where I could. But for me, mostly it was kind of keeping an eye on logistics people. I think what's really fun about filming in a place that's not New York and Los Angeles is when you're filming in North Carolina, it's something really special, like the community doesn't get this a whole lot. And people are genuinely excited about being able to, you know, see a film set or something going on, you know, and the particular neighborhood that we found, our exterior that doubled for Washington D.C. was called the Fourth Ward in Charlotte, which is not too far from downtown. And that whole, you know, what was the other show Homeland, shot there? I think the same building that we used, Homeland was there. And I think they had another show called Dahlia. Is that what it was called, Lisa? I think, I think so. There were a couple of shows that wanted to kind of make a Washington D.C. esque vibe, and they filmed the exact same building. So the folks that live there, you know, they were excited because this happens once every 5ish years. Like it doesn't happen often, but they kind of. They knew to some degree what to expect. But the day we were filming in their neighborhood, you know, people wanted it. We told them when we were going to be there and where, what side of the street they could be on and, you know, they could watch if they wanted to. So people just sat there, you know, brought beers out on the porch and were watching us film. And, you know, it was actually pretty fun and exciting. And, you know, we had a lot of community support. We needed help from like, the Charlotte pd. We needed to block off the streets where we were, we needed permits. So the local film office helped us with all of those things. And making those phone calls, honestly, was pretty, pretty easy, I think, as people just want to know, well, how many folks are you going to have out there? How many crew and what's it going to be like? And as long as we had the right safety protocols in place, we were fine. I think when you're filming in a big city like LA or New York, I, you know, I, I also enjoy it, but to some degree it's like you're not that special because everybody's doing it, so. So you do it and it's great. But here, there was just something about being this kind of special indie production that people felt, you know, it was like a. As my dad likes to say, the warm and fuzzies were there and, and that maybe. Is that like a Southern expression? I don't know. We had the warm and fuzzies from, from the people around. I think the hard part was getting crew. There was another TV show filming in Charlotte at the same time. It was a Lionsgate show and it was a huge production. I mean, they were there for months. They had big production offices and they had a lot of the skilled Film crew they already had. And we were a small shoot. I don't know how many, maybe like 30ish crew, which is small for a production. Not micro, micro small, but relatively small. And so finding like the right skilled labor that we needed was challenging. We had. Lisa, I don't know if you want to talk about the film partnership that we worked with, those folks helped out quite a bit.

00:30:02 - Lisa Cordileone

Yeah, I mean, Shaan did a great job putting together our crew. It's something. It's not a skill of mine. I'm not great at hiring crew. I just know that in terms of I know what skills each department needs to have, but that's something that I know where my skills are and where they're not. And that's why I like to build out a team that, you know, that knows more than me in different directions. And that's really fun. Yeah, Shaan did a great job. You know, when we reached out, our project is a union project. We're SAG actors, so we have all union actors. We worked with the Directors Guild of America, the dga, because our director is union. And they had an experimental contract that we could use. So we were able to bring in a very experienced director, but use an experimental agreement so that we could shoot this short film. We did not do this under iatsi, which is the crew union, essentially. And because we had non union crew members, we were a little hesitant. Shaan had gotten. We were talking with the film office, I think, and they had said, maybe you want to. Because we're kicking up a little dirt, calling around, trying to get crew in Charlotte and down in Atlanta. So people are talking about our production earlier this year, and we were advised to give a call to the local IATSE rep. And so Shaan, you know, sometimes, you know, it's. It's scary sometimes calling the union. So Shaan gave a call and it became in a wonderful partnership with Film Partnership North Carolina, which I don't know if people know about this, but they're. They offer support to local filmmakers and they have folks who want to work in crew or in the film industry from underrepresented communities where they have a budget to be able to pay them an hourly rate plus time and a half for overtime, and are able to vet and help us crew up our production, where we had mentees essentially underneath each of our heads of department. So what happened was our crew became. Not only were we learning, I was learning on the fly as well. You're always learning, but we had people shadowing, we had people learning. So this project really turned into something very special just from a single phone call.

00:32:10 - Jackie Ferguson

So fantastic.

00:32:12 - Lisa Cordileone

Yeah. Did I get all that, Shaan?

00:32:15 - Shaan Dasani

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

00:32:17 - Lisa Cordileone

Okay. Okay, cool. All right, cool.

00:32:19 - Jackie Ferguson

So you're working on this film, but also teaching people that are, you know, interested in filmmaking or just getting into it, that don't have the experience that you both have. So I think that's wonderful.

00:32:32 - Lisa Cordileone

I mean, that goes to the credit of Shaan hiring folks at head of department who were willing to say, yeah, that's fine with me, that they can be on board and that I will be willing to. You know, I mean, you also have to give a nod to each of our heads of department who took the time to take these folks under their wing. I mean, incredible, incredible crew.

00:32:51 - Shaan Dasani

And, yeah, Jackie, you touched on it, too, because it's like, these were a lot of the folks that came on to. To be mentored on the production were relatively new out of school, or maybe we're just wrapping up film school and, you know, training here. I think a lot of them came from School of the Art, some from Elon. And the thing is, when you don't have a high volume of production, how do you really gain the experience? And so that's something with the work that Lisa and I have talked about, because our families are here, and we're thinking about really settling and building a base here. How can we bring more production to the state and work with initiatives like this where it's like, there's a constant flow of work where people can gain the experience they need to be able to say, hey, two, three projects in. We're pros. We know exactly what we need to do, because we've trained with these highly skilled people that have been on bigger sets that know how to work production. And then that kind of also reduces any inhibitions of bigger production. Like in LA or New York might have or Atlanta might have in coming here to film? Because we've got a skilled crew base of people that are ready to work.

00:34:00 - Jackie Ferguson

Absolutely. And what's great about it is, you know, in your industry, you don't get a job until you've had jobs. Right. And you don't get the experience without giving being able to get opportunities like you gave to the folks that were shadowing on your set. So I think that's wonderful.

00:34:19 - Shaan Dasani

Absolutely. The catch 22.

00:34:21 - Lisa Cordileone

Yeah. I always say, too, like, my favorite part of producing films, when I go to see them, like at a festival or something like that, is the credits. Because I know every single person that we by, you know, I know everyone I'M like, so, so proud of everybody and, like, how many people it takes to make something, even a short film. It's unbelievable how many people it takes.

00:34:42 - Jackie Ferguson

You know, that's such a good point. Cause we. When the credits start to roll, that's when we're out of the theater. Right? But if we were to sit and watch, right, all of the people that are involved in everything from the acting and the production and the directing and craft services and transportation, right. It's a lot of people to make something like this come to life. And I think that, you know, advice for the rest of us. We sometimes need to sit through those credits and give everyone their appropriate do. That's right, Absolutely. So let's talk about representation in media. So both of you are passionate about that. Tell us about Crazy as a Loon and how that contributes to shifting narratives and amplifying underrepresented voices.

00:35:33 - Lisa Cordileone

Over the years of, like, running through LGBTQ film festivals, I've noticed a trend since many, many years ago when I first started where. When you go to these festivals, and I think I've talked about this before, you see a lot of women going into the theater and in the. And you'll see a lot of men coming out of the theater because they just saw a movie that represented mostly men. And then you see the women go in for, like a women's film. And then over the past maybe five or seven years, you've had more branch out in our community in terms of having trans and non binary representation in film. But our audiences are divided because the stories that are being told are not necessarily cut and dry, but they're geared towards. They're usually like romance or they're geared towards women or men, you know, in that way. And so there's hierarchy within our own community and there's division sometimes within our own community. And I think about a couple of things. One, I don't like that. And I remember growing up in North Carolina and, you know, going to Legends or going to the one. The one gay bar we had in Greenville, North Carolina. I went to ecu and we all went. We all went and everybody went. Whoever, whoever's part of the community went, and everyone was welcome. It was when I started going to New York and Chicago and la. Although I love these cities and appreciate their community spaces, things got a little more divided because you had more options. Right. I think what I'm trying to get at is the films and TV that I want to write and make. And Crazy as a Loon is a first step of that represent all at intersection, all parts of our community. Indigenous, black, queer, bisexual, lesbian, trans, all parts of our community. I really. And it's not to check boxes, it's because we all existed and we all always have. And so I just place these six people at a point in history when they all would have plausibly, in my mind, existed to see what would have happened. And so, and so that's where I'm at with my, in terms of representation is how do I represent more of the community? And in doing so, how do I become a stronger writer, how do I become a better artist? How do I dig into my own biases about other people in my community as a white CIS gay woman, knowing privilege and knowing otherness. So my friends, by making Crazy is a loon and writing the TV show, committed over these past years and doing readings, I have more trans friends, more gender nonconforming friends than I've ever had because I wrote a character in this and have met more actors. It's been a really, it's been a really special journey to dig into more parts of my community because at our intersection, I think is like where our strength is. And that's what I've been finding. But Shaan, that's.

00:38:34 - Shaan Dasani

Yeah, I think you said it. I mean, you know, Lisa and I talk about kind of how do you touch on values, like human values and experiences that bridge across identity. How do you tell stories about people where it's like, you don't just stop at like this label of like gay or lesbian or queer or trans or black or indigenous, but it's like there are things that all of us experience that if we can find those spaces of creating this like, hook, this like empathetic hook that someone who might not be part of that community can understand.

00:39:12 - Shaan Dasani

You know, one thing we kept coming back to is for, for this film in particular, family is a huge theme. How do you protect and take care of your family when your family is being threatened? And especially telling a story like that in the south, in a place like North Carolina, where family is huge, like, for me personally, like when I talk about my family to anybody who's not of my culture, they understand what that feels like because of what they feel for theirs.

00:39:41 - Shaan Dasani

And so for us, we're like, well, essentially that's what this story is. It's about, forget about for a second, put to the side that these people are queer. They're also a family. They're celebrating a six year old's birthday, their kid's birthday, and they just want to Live their lives in peace, be happy and not feel targeted or oppressed.

00:40:03 - Shaan Dasani

And most of us want that too, regardless of identity. And so we're thinking about when you're able to tell stories from that place of commonality, a shared human experience, then you can have a real meaningful conversation. It was scary for us actually. I'll tell you this too. You know, when I was calling for locations, you know, you have a database, you have a directory of potential spaces that you want to film.

00:40:29 - Shaan Dasani

And I thought, well, how do I describe this film? I don't know who's answering the phone. I don't know if they're going to let us. You know, we had exterior location, we had interior location options, which would effectively be somebody's home, like an actual family's home. Who's on the crew, who's on the locations database. So there was a bit of, you know, the first like minute to minute of the half, minute and a half of the call, trying to assess who I'm talking to, what are their perceptions of queer people, how much do I say? And I led with family because I knew that would be understood.

00:41:06 - Shaan Dasani

And then as we kind of, you know, got to know each other a little bit better through that phone call, I could talk a little bit deeper about what kind of family. But by then they understood because, you know, effectively most of us just want to feel safe, secure, and that's it, live good lives. And I think, I think for us that's a powerful thing. We don't look at crazy as a loon. You know, it's a proof of concept for a TV show.

00:41:33 - Shaan Dasani

We don't look at it as a queer story. We actually, we look at it as an American story. And I think at this point in time in particular, that's going to be very important because we're at a time of great polarization. People are, I think, making their decisions based out of fear today. And it's not even any kind of rational fear. These are fear based things where people hear an identity that's different from theirs and automatically there's a feeling inside, like a visceral feeling, and people react. And if we can just put that to the side for a second and understand one another, I think we have the potential to thrive as a society much more than we ever have.

00:42:19 - Shaan Dasani

The question is, are we going to be able to do that? And so we both look at storytelling as a powerful tool that we can use. I mean, storytelling helps people understand heroes and villains. It helps people understand good and bad. It helps us empathize it helps win elections. So storytelling is perception. It's about how people. It helps people make certain decisions. So we want to be able to use it as a tool that bridges people together versus further creating divide. And I think a lot of people in our industry want the same thing. It's a tricky time in our industry, too. But we all, you know, hopefully we lead with that passion and that motivation and that positivity to be able to make a positive impact as opposed to the opposite.

00:43:13 - Jackie Ferguson

Absolutely. I would normally add to that, but there's nothing that I can say.

00:43:20 - Lisa Cordileone

Shaan crushed.

00:43:21 - Jackie Ferguson

An amazing way to end the episode. I want to ask you all, what's next for you? So crazy as a loon. When can we see it? Right? And what's next? And where do we go from here?

00:43:37 - Lisa Cordileone

What's next is. Well, we've been submitting to film festivals, so we've submitted to the big ones and we'll be finding out soon enough if we get in and when we get in what film festivals we get into. So that's where to keep an eye out. We're working on building out a team for the TV series Committed, which is the bigger project, which I would love to bring back down to Charlotte to shoot a whole first season of a show, which is a very, very big goal because you need the budget to do it. And the fundraising completely changes. Independent TV is on the brain for me right now. I'll just say that there's a lot of different business models floating around. It's a great time to be an independent producer. Hollywood's doing its thing with AI and things are shifting in our business. I think if you're an actor, you should be writing. If you're a writer, you should be producing. Get after it. Like, go make your things. So that's what's Next is bringing Committed to life this next year. And also, I've been lucky enough. Shaan. I don't know if I could talk about this, but I'm working with Shaan on his project. He had a proof of concept at the festival where we met in Durham. He was screening his proof of concept for a feature called Agents of Change, which is like a spy action movie with heart comedy. And so we are working on that feature script together right now. So that is next up.

00:45:07 - Shaan Dasani

That one's about secret agents that fight environmental crime. It's a fun, you know, if you like kind of the classic James Bond stuff, this is very much written in that vein.

00:45:17 - Jackie Ferguson

Okay, awesome. Exciting.

00:45:20 - Lisa Cordileone

Shaan's into climate justice. I'm like, really into tech. Ethics. I feel like there's some good overlap and good storytelling to be had moving ahead with these two themes.

00:45:31 - Jackie Ferguson

Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, that's very exciting. Thank you so much, Lisa and Shaan for joining us and sharing the journey behind Crazy as a Loon and more about your personal journeys. It's been a pleasure to hear about your creative process and the impact that you're making in the world of storytelling to our listeners. Make sure to check out the film when you find it Crazy as a Loon and when it's available, we will be looking for that. And stay tuned for more episodes of Diversity beyond the Checkbox. Thank you again both so much. It's been a pleasure.

00:46:07 - Shaan Dasani

Thank you. Jay thank you.

00:46:13 - Jackie Ferguson

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity beyond the Checkbox. If you loved this show, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, YouTube and TikTok, or subscribe to our newsletter at BeyondtheCheckbox.com this show is sponsored by the Diversity movement and edited and produced by Irfluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.