Breaking the Mold: An HR Leader’s Journey with Donnebra McClendon, Head of DEI at Ceridian

Jackie - 00:00:09:

You're listening to the Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox podcast. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, certified Diversity Executive, writer, human rights advocate, and co-founder of the diversity movement. On this podcast, I'm talking to trailblazers, game changers and glass ceiling breakers who share their inspiring stories, lessons learned, and insights on business inclusion and personal development.

Jackie - 00:00:41:

Thanks for tuning in to the Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox podcast. Today, my guest is Donnebra McLendon. Donnebra is Head of Diversity, equity, and Inclusion at Ceridian, a human resources software provider. Donnebra is responsible for designing and driving policies and programs to ensure equity and fairness across the organization. Donnebra is passionate about cultivating a consciously unbiased and intentionally inclusive culture. She established a nonprofit organization, Leaders are Readers supporting literacy in the Tampa Bay area. Donnebra, thank you so much for joining me today.

Donnebra - 00:01:20:

Thank you for having me, Jackie. I'm super excited to chat with you.

Jackie - 00:01:23:

Donnebra, I always start with a question about you. Will you tell us a little about yourself? Your background, your family, your identity, whatever you'd like to share.

Donnebra - 00:01:32:

Absolutely. So I'm real simple. I'm a country girl from Central Florida with roots in Alabama. I am the middle child of five kids. My parents had four girls and a boy. And yes, all the stereotypes that you hear about middle children are absolutely true. They all apply to me. I am a peacemaker, but I am highly competitive. I only play to win. So family game night around this place gets a little bit rowdy. I have no sympathy on the kids, nor do I have sympathy on my husband. So, yes, that's a little bit about me. I only play to win.

Jackie - 00:02:08:

You've been with Ceridian for a number of years, and you're the first in this DEI role. A lot of people believe that developing your career and growing your career means changing jobs and switching companies. It's rare to see someone at the same company for as long as you've been with Ceridian. What has enabled you to advance your career without the job hopping?

Donnebra - 00:02:33:

Although I've been with the same company, I feel like every two or three years I've had a new job. I've done everything within the organization. Well, let me take that back. Pretty much everything in the organization. I tell people they don't let me work in the mailroom because I talk too much and I'm too loud, and they will never get their work done. And cafeteria staff knows that I can't cook, so they never invite me to come over there. But I've had lots of opportunities within the organization, which makes it fresh for me. I've never been one with a plan to say, I'm going to stay here for 30 years. Never been my intention at all. But I've always had really good people, a good people network, good sponsors, good mentors. So every few years, I've had an opportunity to grow professionally in another space within the organization. We're a global company, so there's always lots of different things for me to get into, but my passion has always been leading, managing people, leading, managing projects. So stepping into this particular role was a natural fit for me. Awesome.

Jackie - 00:03:34:

And then within the organization, Donnebra, how do you manage moving from one role to the next? Do you have mentors or sponsors internally? Do you seek out your own professional development? How did you climb that ladder?

Donnebra - 00:03:50:

I have and continue to have great mentors and amazing sponsors. But I also know the difference. There's definitely a difference between mentors and sponsors. And because I've been intentional about building out my network, both for my mentors as well as my sponsors, I've always had the support that I've needed to transition to different roles within the organization. Some roles lasted longer than others. Right. And I'm okay with that. But everyone gave me an opportunity to learn a little bit more about myself, and then it also opened up doors for me to meet new people. I am not shy. No one can ever accuse me of being shy. And one of my mentors told me, she said, ask for what you want before you get mad. What are the best pieces of advice I could have ever taken? So I ask for what I want, and I think about it. What's the worst thing someone can tell you? No. And we move on, right? Yeah. I've been intentional about building out my network. I've been intentional about making really strong relationships and then cultivating those relationships that's really, really helped me in navigating this career.

Jackie - 00:04:57:

I love that. And such good advice. Ask for what you want, because so many of us don't do that. Right. We're waiting to be given the next opportunity or the next thing, and we don't speak up, and we need to do that more.

Donnebra - 00:05:10:

Jackie, wait. You have to remember, ask for what you want before you get mad. Right. Because once you're mad, it's over.

Jackie - 00:05:16:

Yes. Absolutely. That's right. Because what will happen is now we're upset, we're stewing a little bit, maybe not performing as well, because we feel like we should be in a different place, a different role. And once you say, okay, here's where I am, here's where I'd like to be, go ahead and ask those questions. Because even with the no Donnebra, you sometimes get good advice as to what the gap is that you can work toward. And now you've got a stronger plan.

Donnebra - 00:05:51:

Yeah. And self awareness is key. So ask for what you want. Be prepared for the feedback that you get, and be open to receive that feedback. Right. And then do something with it. Sometimes that do something with it means you've got to do some additional work in order to get what you think that it is that you want. And not all no's are bad no's. So I've been saved by a few bad no's, and I'm thankful for that.

Jackie - 00:06:16:

Absolutely. Danieber why did Ceridian decide to invest in this role? Head of Diversity, Equity and Inclusion. And how has it transformed the business culture in the three years that you've been in the position?

Donnebra - 00:06:30:

Yes, I will tell you that I've been a longtime employee, and as a global organization, sometimes we are often blind to the things that don't necessarily impact us on a day to day basis. We welcomed a new CHRO a few years ago, and I've had the pleasure of being able to work with her. One of our core values that we recently adopted was equity. And in adopting that core value, we decided to take a more concrete stance on our beliefs and how we wanted to reshape the culture of our organization. I've had the pleasure of doing the work that I do kind of off the side of my desk for many, many years before it became a real role, is what I will say. But making the investment in the position, making the investment in a strategic initiatives, that really, really helped us to double down on our core value of improving equity within our organization. So the investment goes way beyond just a title. It goes beyond logos and slogans that people slap on walls. Our goal is to really embed diversity, equity, and inclusion. We're going to embed DEI into our company's DNA, and we do that unapologetically. I know some people organizations had this knee jerk reaction after the murder of George Floyd, right. And they put all these great statements out there. But if it's truly not authentic, if it's truly not part of who you are, who your organization is, that tends to fizzle. It doesn't last very long. And I'm really proud to say that our organization really has stood firm in our beliefs and stood firm in our investment, and we're going to continue to do so.

Jackie - 00:08:08:

That's amazing. And it's so important. I love that you said you embed DEI into the DNA of your organization because it's not a separate initiative. Right. It's not one that's only in the HR function. DEI should be infused throughout the entire organization, in every part of the organization. That's so right. Donnebra, you describe yourself as not your traditional HR lady. What do you mean by that?

Donnebra - 00:08:38:

Okay, so, Jackie, most of my career at Ceridian has been in operations. Right? Operations. People move a certain way. Again, I'm very competitive. I am loud. Most HR people aren't very loud. Right. So that means that I have to be aware of my surroundings. I often use some choice language, is what I will say on this podcast today. Right. Most HR people don't do that, but I lead with authenticity. And I will say that regardless of whatever the situation is, I always try to imagine if I were the employee, if this issue directly impacted me. I try to lead with heart, but when I say I'm not the traditional HR lady, sometimes probably more times than I care to admit, my thoughts or feelings kind of spew out. So although I am a member of the HR team, I will say I am consciously being groomed on being more aware facial expressions. Most HR people are aware of their facial expressions. I'm not quite there. I'm in training. I will say that.

Jackie - 00:09:41:

Me too.

Donnebra - 00:09:43:

Because if you really want to know what I'm thinking, just look at me. I give you that face and it's like, we know this is not going over well with her.

Jackie - 00:09:54:

One of the topics Donnebra, that is getting the spotlight in HR right now is pay equity. What are some of the best practices in beginning that process? It can be scary for a lot of organizational leaders. What are some best practices that you have to start that process?

Donnebra - 00:10:11:

Yeah. So in all honesty, I think organizations must first do a thorough evaluation of their current policies that's hiring policies, that's merit policies, evaluations of promotions. In order for us to really get to a good understanding of pay equity within our organization, we have to take a step back. Now, I strongly recommend that the evaluations that these organizations are going to conduct are not done using internal resources. It becomes very, very difficult and you can really overlook some of the systemic inequities when you are part of the problem. So step one, bring somebody else in from the outside who can hold that mirror up to your organization and say, let's evaluate your policies. Let's evaluate how you're hiring, what your promotion process looks like, how are you giving merit and merit evaluations that's going to help us to get a better understanding of what areas we need to specifically focus on in achieving pay equity. And again, try not to do it yourself if you can. Again. I'm a girl from the south we often say, I'm going to let you know when your slip is showing. That means somebody else needs to be able to look at you and tell you what they see and then from there you make the corrections. So I strongly, strongly encourage that companies take step one, do a thorough evaluation of those processes and policies and that's going to help them to be able to really identify those hotspots that they really need to target and focus on.

Jackie - 00:11:37:

Donnebra, what do we need to know about recruiting top talent in 2023? This has been a topic that with the great resignation and diversity recruiting or multicultural recruiting, all the buzzwords, right. It's not just about putting wrecks out in Ivy League schools and job boards anymore, right?

Donnebra - 00:12:00:

Absolutely.

Jackie - 00:12:01:

How do we recruit top talent and diverse talent in 2023?

Donnebra - 00:12:06:

So I will tell you, Jackie, this is funny because I didn't attend an Ivy League school, but the key to recruiting top talent really is the ability to identify transformative skills. There is no shortage of jobs out there. There is no shortage of amazing talent out there, but we can't solely rely or exclusively rely on tools such as artificial intelligence, resume, screeners in order to deliver us that perfect candidate. Right. Recruiters have got to do the work, and doing that work means being intentional about where you're looking for talent. My background is in education and leadership. However, I've had a career that has really helped me to cultivate a unique set of skills that I've used to develop a comprehensive global DEI strategy. Now, talent can't be overlooked by that algorithm that misses that flag keyword again, I tell people I graduated from Bethune-Cookman University, a small, historically black college in Daytona Beach, Florida. Our founder, Dr. Mary McLeod Bethune, started the school with a dollar children. However, nobody was knocking on my door to come and find me. It didn't mean that I didn't have the skills or the talents that they were looking for. Right. But again, if you're posting to specific job boards or only looking at these specific schools, you're going to miss the talent. Again, there's amazing talent out there. I think recruiters have got to be intentional. And then hiring leaders, they've got to be intentional about looking for transformative skills. If we do that, then I think there is a plethora of talent. We just got to make sure that we're open to understanding again, what is our end result, what are we trying to accomplish? And has this person been able to demonstrate that in a traditional or nontraditional way that may or may not be clearly identified on a resume?

Jackie - 00:13:55:

Absolutely. And again, that's so important. And I love what you said about you going to an HBCU, because so many times we have people that recruit at these five schools, right. And if you're doing that, whatever those schools are, you're going to have similar thought process, similar experience. And what you want to do is expand that so that you can get new voices in the room, new thoughts, new ways of problem solving, new innovations. And that only comes from creating an environment of diversity and the people that are in the room with you. So totally agree there, Donnebra there's a conversation around how companies continue momentum for their DEI initiatives during economic downturn, a political landscape that's shaky and negative. Right. This upcoming election, what is your advice for organizations that are feeling that squeeze?

Donnebra - 00:14:56:

Yeah, I will tell you that there will always be challenges with continuing the momentum. I encourage organizations to scale it back and remember the why. Right. Remember why you started this initiative. Remember why you started that journey. No one ever said it was going to be easy, nor is it going to be quick. But if you stay focused on your why, I believe that you'll be able to weather the storm, to push through all of the outside noise and really hone in to developing and executing on strategic initiatives that will be meaningful and sustainable to your organizations. It all goes back to, again, understanding what charged us here, what got us to where we are right now, tap into those champions within those companies. When people get burnt out in this particular space, it's usually because they're trying to take on too much without enough resources. You don't need a full team in order to run an effective DEI strategy. What you need are champions throughout the organization that you can leverage, and they will help you to do that. So again, the momentum will only be kept going if we remember our why and not let the outside noise get us distracted from our ultimate goal.

Jackie - 00:16:13:

Absolutely. And Denise, you mentioned burnout. Tell me, what are some of the causes of burnout and what are some of the ways that you manage burnout and that you recommend that we do that as well.

Donnebra - 00:16:26:

Burnout happens easily, and I don't think that we often recognize that we are burned out until we are literally on our backs. So I will tell you that self care is not selfish.

Right.

So we at Ceridian, we really believe in the importance of taking care of yourself. We encourage things like Mental Wellness Days or Healthy Wellness Days where you can really take time off. We also encourage things like a focused Friday. Oftentimes we become overwhelmed with meetings and sometimes we meet for the sake of meeting. We don't really understand the importance of saying no, finding balance, setting up boundaries, and setting up limitations. I've become better at that over time, and I think it's a process. Right? So managing burnout really does have to be done with intention. I have to know specifically that these are my limits. I try to set a routine, I allow for some things to pop in, but I'm really, really becoming better at setting up boundaries. To me, that's the only way that you're really going to be able to effectively combat burnout. People talk about work, life balance, and that being a myth, I don't think it has to be. I really think if we get into our minds, one, there is no award for the overworked person. Right? You don't get a trophy at the end of the day, and you do what you can and be okay with that. As long as you're giving 100% of who you are at that particular time on that particular task, there is no need to take on additional, again, no reward for the overworked person. You have to learn how to set boundaries for yourself.

Jackie - 00:18:02:

Donnebra , tell me a little about your family and how you create balance in your life with your career and your family.

Donnebra - 00:18:10:

So my family is very interesting. You heard me mention at the top that I am the middle child. My parents had five kids. Funny story. I tell people my dad had a bit of an ego problem. He named us all after him. So in order. It's Danika Danisha. Donnebra, my little sister Danella, then I have a brother, Donnie. If they would have stopped, they would not have had that boy that they wanted. But we would probably if we could dance, we'd be bigger than the Jackson Five. But we cannot dance and nor can we sing. So education was always, like, top priority for us. Again, if we could dance or sing, we would have been on the major life, but we can't. But education is really, really big for us. Family life is really important to us. My parents were, I would say, traditional parents. They both worked really hard and they made sure that they stressed the importance of keeping family first, being authentic to who you are. As kids, we would sit at the table and eat dinner together and engage in, my dad would say, intelligent conversation because not all conversations that kids have is intelligent. So we would have intelligent conversation and spirited debates. And that made me who I am and encouraged me to do the same with my husband and my kids. So I only have the two because that's all I can afford. And, Lord, that's all I have the patience for. But it's really important for me for them to understand that family is important and that who you are would represent the family that we try to build. So that's it. And then we keep that going. I'm still very much involved in my kids education and their education careers is what I like to call it. I'm that mom. Yes, that's me. Graduate program. I still need to see your grades, right?.

Jackie - 00:20:03:

Excellent. I love it.

Donnebra - 00:20:04:

And my husband is pretty much the support. Like, he's the backup. I go in as the enforcer and he just kind of stands back and say, what did your mom say? That's how it works.

Jackie - 00:20:16:

Donnebra, tell me what the importance of legacy is to you since we're on the topic of your family and what is the legacy that you want to leave?

Donnebra - 00:20:26:

So, honestly, I feel so blessed in that I have a family that is awesomely supportive of everything that I do. I know that my sisters and my brother, they are my biggest cheerleaders. I have the best little big brother ever. As the youngest with four older sisters, he is very protective of us. My legacy is very simple. I really want people to remember me as an inspirational force who always challenge them to show up authentically and to never settle for second place. Never settle for second place. And I guess it's part of my upbringing. My dad would always say second place is the first place loser. Why would you want a second place? Right? So, again, spark that competitiveness in me. But I really want people to know that I want to cheer you on every step of the way. So my legacy, if anything, should be one that is an inspirational force to challenge you, to think outside of the norm, to do something different, but to show up as your authentic self.

Jackie - 00:21:31:

Love that. And Donnebra, over the course of our conversation, you have talked about living authentically a few times. Tell me what that means in a society where so often we are shrinking ourselves or covering and, you know, what does it mean to live authentically?

Donnebra - 00:21:55:

Living authentically for me is knowing emphatically that I am enough. I show up as I am, and that is enough. No errors are needed, right? I told you, I'm a country girl, so maybe you hear my twang every now and then, and that's okay. It is enough. It is not a sign of my level of education. I got a million degrees, but that's not who I am. Outside of the hard work that it took to get there, who I am showing up is enough. I'm already equipped with everything that I need to be great. Now it's up to me to demonstrate that greatness, but I have to do so as the person that I was raised to be, and I really want other people to understand that that you show up already enough. You show up as a winner, and it's not okay to shrink yourself to make others feel important. We don't ever have to do that. And again, I think that goes back to the reinforcement that I received as a kid, that no matter what, you are enough.

Jackie - 00:22:55:

Absolutely. Thank you for sharing that. Donnebra, tell us a little bit about Leaders are Readers.

Donnebra - 00:23:03:

So, again, as a middle child and I grew up in a family with five kids, reading was very important to us. Right. We would have reading challenges. You come to the table. We had to be able to debate what happened in the world that day. And again, as a middle child, I was not going to be no one's going to outspeak me on this one. So I needed to make sure I had all my facts in order. So I've always had a passion for reading. My dad was an educator. My sisters are educators. I started out as an educator. I taught third grade. I tell people I taught third grade for half a semester, cried every day, and realized this was not for me. Right. But I come from a family of educators, so reading has always been really important to me. Also, it's really important for me to make sure that people have access to books. Books were sacred in our household. We never threw away a book. I don't care how old it was. It was always a point of reference for something else. So we had massive libraries. To this day, my kids have massive libraries. Right. So making sure that kids in underserved communities have access to books, and specifically books with characters that looked like them, that told their stories, that was really, really important for me. So on my 30th birthday, which was a long time ago, please don't ask me how long ago it was. My husband asked, what do you want to do for your birthday? I didn't need another bag, I didn't need another trip, I didn't need anything else. And I said, I really want to start a nonprofit. I want to invest in buying some books and I want to set up shop and really help kids understand the importance of reading. I picked up the phone and started calling some friends and said, here's what I need you to do. And they were voluntold. Not all of them volunteered, but they were volunteered. But they jumped right in. And that's really how we kicked it off. We started off with a group of twelve students. We started off with some paperback books and we would meet up at the public library every other Saturday. We would read out loud, we would talk through the lessons, and it just became a grew from there. Most recently, we did a book drive. I live in the state of Florida and we have a big issue right now with books being banned and specific books about black culture, black history, LGBTQ, two plus communities. These books are being banned. So it's really important for me to make sure that students still have access to these books, even when they cannot get them in their libraries. So Readers are Leaders for me, is a passion project. It helps me to find that balance that I talk about between work and life. But it's one of the things that I really want to make sure that people understand is super important to me. When you have access to a book, it opens up your world. You have access to brand new friends. You have access to places, some places that people will never get a chance to venture to. So reading is very much a part of who I am, and it's one of the things I really want to be remembered with.

Jackie - 00:26:03:

That's amazing and amazing to have started that so young, right? It's so amazing for you to think about that in the lives that you're able to impact, because you're right. Continual education is how you grow in your career, in your perspective and thinking. And you can teach yourself almost anything in a book.

Donnebra - 00:26:30:

And it's one of those things no one can ever take away from you, right? So while property can be taken away, money can be taken away or lost. Your education, what you know, can never be taken away from you. Which is again, one of the reasons why education was really, really pushed in our household. It was one of those non negotiables, right? So eat, sleep, drink, school, study that's in that order. And again, I just believe that it's a gift because we understand that not everyone has access to a good education.

Jackie - 00:27:03:

Absolutely. Donnebra, as you think about your role at Ceridian, a lot of people are into this role, this DEI role with their companies and they're the first ones in the role. What advice do you give to people that are in the role for the first time, struggling a little bit? How do they get their feet under them? How do they gain support from the leaders in their organization?

Donnebra - 00:27:34:

From the leaders from your organization? And actually, I'm going to tell you to start outside of your organization. Build a network, right? A lot of companies are really new in their journey for DEI, and it's really important that in this space, you have a network. Now, I was fortunate enough to have a network who is also family. My cousin is a provost at Notre Dame, and she leads her DEI initiatives there. So my network was part of my family. But I will also say that opening up your network, allowing yourself to join these groups, really will help you in understanding the work. It will help you in keeping the momentum going because it's very difficult to do. But tap into, I said earlier, the champions within the organization. When people understand the work that you're trying to accomplish, you will find that there are some genuine people at all levels throughout the organization who really want to help you be successful. Know that this is not a job that you will carry on your own. There is no way one person can change an organization single handedly. It just doesn't happen. So when you are intentional about building your external network, and then you start to identify those internal folks, those folks that will be voluntold to do things right, but they'll happily do them when they're volunteer to do them, it really does make the work a lot easier. And then I tell people this all the time, pack a lunch, right? This work is not for it's not a sprint. You will need to pack a lunch. Be prepared. Not everything is going to go as planned, but you have to keep your eye on the prize. When you keep your eye on the prize and know that even making a difference for one or two people really did change something, then you'll be inspired to keep doing more. So pack a lunch, get that network together, reach out, be intentional about your outreaches, right? And make sure that you keep the momentum going. Tap into those champions. I've found that there are so many people within our organization who are just as passionate about this work as I am, and I often call on them to help me out, because, again, this is not the job for one or two or even a small team. This is definitely the work for the entire organization. They will all benefit from it. And honestly, this isn't an HR issue. This isn't an HR initiative. The work belongs to the people, and the people are the people in the organization.

Jackie - 00:30:00:

Absolutely. Donnebra, what is the message that you'd like to leave with our listeners today?

Donnebra - 00:30:06:

So I talk a. Lot about authenticity because that's really important for me. And I want people to be able to show up as their authentic self. Right. Be brave enough to do that. And when you're not sure what that looks like, right, surround yourself with a circle of people. It could be a small circle, but a circle of people who you can really go to to get that that necessary. Feedback. Don't be afraid to ask for the feedback, but show up as your authentic self. It's way too hard to be somebody else. And trust me, you'll never be able to keep up with whoever that person is that you're trying to be anyway. So my message to the people is just that simple. Authenticity over everything else.

Jackie - 00:30:47:

Love it. Love that. Donnebra, how can people learn more about your work and get in touch with you?

Donnebra - 00:30:52:

That's a really good one. Because shack yeah, I need to do better with the social media presence. But I am on LinkedIn. I am always on LinkedIn, and believe it or not, I'm the only Donnebra McClendon out there. Now, I will say there's another Donnebra, and I actually had a chance to meet her because it spelled exact same way. But I'm the only Donnebra McClendon out there. Hit me up on email. I'm donnebra@msn.com. I'm also Donnebra on all the social channels. So you'll find me on Instagram, LinkedIn, and I love to talk, believe it or not. Reach out. Let's have a conversation. I love a virtual conversation. If you're in the Tampa Bay Area, let's meet up in Fireston.

Jackie - 00:31:32:

I love it. Donnebra, thank you so much. Such great advice about living authentically ways to make sure that your DEI initiatives stay important, even with the economy and the political landscape making it difficult. Right. So I love that. Thank you so much for your wisdom and advice there.

Donnebra - 00:31:54:

Thank you for having me. This was absolutely fun. You got to have me back again, Jackie, if you got to do this one more time or something.

Jackie - 00:32:00:

Absolutely, Donnebra. I really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.

Donnebra - 00:32:04:

Thank you.

Jackie - 00:32:14:

Thanks for joining me for this episode. Please take a moment to subscribe and review this podcast and share this episode with a friend. Become a part of our community on LinkedIn, Instagram and Twitter. This show was edited and produced by Earfluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Join us for our next episode of Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. Take care of yourself and each other.