The Diversity of Love: Unveiling the Secrets of Long-lasting Relationships

Jackie - 00:00:10:

You're listening to the Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox Podcast, brought to you by The Diversity Movement. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, author, speaker, and human rights advocate. On this show, I'm talking to trailblazers, game changers, and glass ceiling breakers who share their inspiring stories and insights on business, inclusion, and personal development. Thank you for downloading this episode. I am truly grateful for you. Enjoy the show. Welcome to Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. This is the first of three love episodes. Today, I have the pleasure of speaking with four amazing men who are married to incredible women. These guys I admire and respect, and we share a genuine friendship and affection. So guys, thanks for being with me tonight.

Grant - 00:01:06:

Glad to be here. Thanks.

Jackie - 00:01:09:

Later in the year, I'll be doing an episode with women married to men, and then I'll be doing an LGBTQ plus episode as well. But today, the guys are in the hot seat to answer all the questions I have about love. Guys, if you'll please introduce yourself, tell us a little about you and how long you've been married. Grant, we'll start with you.

Grant - 00:01:31:

I'm Grant Willard. I've been married 46 years. I had my first date with Laura. 50 years ago this Valentine's Day.

Grant - 00:01:43:

I love it. That's awesome.

Grant - 00:01:44:

Yeah, so Laura and I have been together a while. We've got two great kids. Daughter is on the faculty of NC State, and I have a son that's in the software business. In Oakland, California. I founded two companies. That's actually how I got to know Donald, which is really good. A couple years ago I retired, spending a lot of time on a bicycle and Laura and I are traveling a lot these days.

Jackie - 00:02:11:

Thank you, Grant. I'm so glad that you're here. Kurt, would you like to go next?

Kurt - 00:02:15:

Absolutely, Kurt Merriweather. Been married for 20, I got to do the math now, 27 years. To Valerie and have four kids. Two girls, two boys. One college graduate and Kayla pursuing her master's, one senior in high school, senior in college, I'm in denial mode here, in Sikh State, and a couple of high schoolers, Ellis and Reese. And. I count myself fortunate to have found my people talk about soulmates. It's true in this case. And so I'm fortunate that I found someone to help me be a better person and really excited about talking about that today. As far as a few things about me... I've had a career that's kind of been eclectic, worked at Procter & Gamble and some other brands that you might recognize and discovery in AOL. Was fortunate to be part of the team that co-founded the Diversity Movement. So excited to join with many of you who've all been here for that ride. I am a patent holder. I am a graduate of the Ohio State University and also went to Stanford Business School. And so. Fortunate, though, a lot of that was possible because of Valerie's support. And so we'll talk about that as we get into it.

Jackie - 00:03:53:

Love it. Thanks, Kurt. Bob?

Bob - 00:03:57:

Hey, everybody. I'm Bob Batchelor. And I'm just going to preface this by saying I cannot talk about how much I love my wife, Suzette, without tearing up. And fun fact, Jackie and I have not been on a podcast in the last year where one of us has not cried. So I'm putting the odds on me. I'm definitely going to lose it at some point. I've been married to my wife Suzette for, it'll be five years in June. So it's been honestly the best five years of my life. And I already felt the first little wave of tears. So I'm gonna back off that. About me, by day, I am the director of PR and publications for the diversity movement. By night, I am an intrepid scribe, writing best-selling cultural history and biography, won a couple of book awards. Write about things like Stan Lee and... George Remus, the Bourbon King and other things. So I'm a storyteller and looking forward to this journey with all my good friends here.

Jackie - 00:05:09:

Thanks Bob. Don?

Grant - 00:05:12:

Donald Thompson, let's see, been married going on five years. And what will be interesting is my gorgeous wife is our host today. And so shout out there. So my answers will be live and uncut, but we will see if there are any downstream impacts. That I share.

Jackie - 00:05:33:

No sleeping on the couch tonight, Don. That's right.

Don - 00:05:38:

We always joke. She's like, get out of this house. I was like, this is a big ass house. I'm not going anywhere. I'll go downstairs. Um, But let's see, I would consider myself at this point a serial entrepreneur. One of the things I learned from Grant is that you could help people grow things financially, but really chase adventures by taking an idea and commercializing it. And quite frankly, I think I've become addicted to doing that and just seeing that process develop. And so I like to start businesses and really build teams. Businesses are really a byproduct of getting another chance to build high-performing teams and see what that looks like. I have four kids, three daughters, Mariah, Sierra, and Diana. And David is the son of the crew. And so, yeah, enough about me, but I look forward to being here and excited.

Jackie - 00:06:40:

Thanks, Don. And Bob, you have two daughters as well. I'll give you a space for that.

Bob - 00:06:45:

Yeah, it's been a... Prepodacious kind of time with my kids lately. They're both wonderful young women who are trying to find their way in the world in college. And it ain't easy, as we all know, who know college students and have college students. It ain't easy to be in a college student in today's world. So I have Sophie, who is a sophomore at Appalachian State, and Cassie, who is a freshman at Miami University in Ohio.

Jackie - 00:07:17:

Awesome. All right, guys, let's jump into some of these questions. The first one is. How did you know that your wife was the one? And when did you know it?

Grant - 00:07:30:

Don, you gotta start this one.

Don - 00:07:33:

Um, you know, before we got together romantically, uh, Jackie and I worked together for many years. And so I got to see her commitment. I got to see the quality of individual, the way that she took care of her, not just her daughter, but anyone in her circle that she loved. And I went through a divorce, um, in 2014, that was aggressive. Is what I would say. And not so much because the divorce was contentious, but because that was a real point of failure. It was a real point of... It was one of the low points of my life. Quite frankly, and I didn't. I didn't believe I would ever fall in love again. I didn't believe I would ever get married again. My heart was hardened. Quite frankly. And it was hardened towards women. It was hardened towards marriage. Anything associated with that I didn't want that kind of pain again. I'm good. This is good for the rest of my life. And the reason and when I knew Jackie was the one. Is when her spirit, her care, her love, her affection for me cut through all of that hardness. And she just wanted to help me be better, do better, and smile again. And that for me was a pretty sensational kind of period of time because I just never thought I would be blessed enough to find somebody that I would want to build a life with again in that way. And so I knew because she consistently thought about me first. And that other centeredness about her. Just cut through all of that clutter and all of that pain. And I dreamed again. That being in a loving relationship was something that I deserved. And then I deserve that with her. And so, Bob, you're, you know, I'm going to hold back the tears because ego is so strong, but I'll stop talking right there on that and yield the floor to some others.

Grant - 00:09:39:

How did I know? I guess how I knew is... I guess Laura and I got to know each other first. What brought us together was that we were, we both were funny. We just were funny together. We could make fun of each other. Um, And then the more I got to know her, I just realized, and she still is just, she's the smartest person I know. Um, but, but you don't, you don't ever know it. She just, she, she's smart without, she just has this, this humble smartness. So that, you know, those two are appealing to me. Um, the more I got to know her, I got to, I got to see her around her family, you know, like Don was saying around. How she treated people she loved. It's like, I want some of that. So all that was, we had a lot of that going for us. And we were young. We just kind of fell into it. It became, we really were the first, we were the first dates of each other. So we just kind of fell into it and it grew. I started dating Laura when she was, or we started dating when we were 16. Um, We end up in Raleigh. We're in school. And, you know, the... The moment I knew she was the one was when... Second semester, I got a car and I said to Lauren, I said, why don't we why don't we try to date other people just to make sure? Had this great idea that we'd date other people. And Lauren said, well. I don't need to, but if you do, go ahead and do it. So she's at Merritt. If I'm at State, I called up a girl. Was new in high school. She's over at Carolina. We went on a date. It was okay. It wasn't bad. I mean, it wasn't bad. It wasn't good. Driving back, I thought, why am I doing this? Why am I looking and I've got somebody good? So the next morning, it was Saturday morning. I called Laura up. She's at Meredith in a suite. This is back when you had one phone for four. Phone was answered. Can I speak to Laura? She can't come to the phone right now. Okay, so I called back that afternoon. Somebody else answered the phone. She can't come back to the phone. So for two weeks. I got nothing. The girls in the suite circled around and I was not allowed to speak to Laura for two weeks, two weeks. Um, I knew right then I better, I better, I better seal this deal. So that's when I knew.

Jackie - 00:12:21:

Love it. Love it. And you and Laura work together, which to the interjection and what Bob was saying, you work together for a very long time at IQ.

Grant - 00:12:31:

Yeah, I pride myself in being... Founding a couple companies um Laura's always had more aspirational goals. She wouldn't say she was a founder twice, but we both co-founded two companies together and rolled up our sleeves and did a lot together. She made it all possible for me.

Jackie - 00:12:53:

Bob and Kurt, how did you know that your wife was the one?

Bob - 00:12:57:

Go ahead, Kurt.

Kurt - 00:13:00:

Uh, it's interesting. I've got another two weeks, the hiatus to add to what Grant was talking about, uh, when, when I knew that Valerie was the one. So. When we first met. We met through a mutual friend of ours who Valerie went to school with at Howard University. And so we worked together at Procter & Gamble. Valerie's friend said, you know, I've got my friend coming in town and I had met a lot of her. She was in a sorority and I'd met all of her sorority sisters before. I was like, yeah, whatever. There's no way I don't want to have. I actually don't want to go, but I'll go to this thing you're having. So that we can, I'll meet your friend. So there Valerie was, and so she kind of got my attention from the very beginning. And she wasn't like the other friends she had. It wasn't just that she was attractive externally, but her just her being was there was something about her that kind of captivated me. And so we went out on our first date. And she started to pull out pictures of her family. And I had never seen anybody do that before. I was like, wow, that's pretty cool that you first, on our first date, you're going to pull out family pictures because most people don't want to share their families that way. So we had had like an instant. Connection based on that. And so we, you know, we were dating for a few months and then, you know, what I call the hiatus happened. And so she was like, yeah, well. I'm not where you are. I'm not where you're at. So, you know, I'm going to go hang out for a couple of weeks and you're not going to hear from me. And I'm not sure where this is going to go. And so for two weeks. No communication. So I was, but different than Grant, I didn't call her. I was like, there's no way I'm calling her back. So if that's how you want this to be, then that's how it's going to be. So I went radio silent. Two weeks. Didn't pick the phone up, didn't do anything. And I was tempted, but I never did. And so. So she called me. She was like, hey, what are you doing, friend? I was like, hey, how are you? And she said, well, let's get together. And so at that point, we weren't exclusive and we were both seeing other folks. And I was like, listen, I don't want to see anybody else. I could see other folks, but I don't want to. I want to be with you. I just want to put all my cards on the table and let you know. Know how I'm feeling. And she said, well, I'm not where you're at. I was like, all right. So at that point, I was ready to just say goodbye. And so then, because I was at that point where I was, I kind of laid my cards on the table. But then I was firm about walking away. Then that was what attracted me. I was like, wait a minute. People usually don't do that. Do you know who I am? So as a result, we got, you know, that was kind of the thing that sealed it. And then that's how I knew. But I knew almost day one. And it bothered me that I knew that day one. It kind of aided me. That I had had these plans that it was going to be all about me. My motto at that point was 1993. So it's going to be all about me in 1993. I could have had t-shirts printed. Like I'm not trying to be with anybody else. I'm just trying to be me. And do my thing single. And then she came in and like destroyed all my dreams of being single within a couple of weeks. Because I had declared that I had gone to this thing with some friends of mine. I was not prepared to meet her when I did. So that's how I knew she was the one.

Jackie - 00:17:03:

That’s all about me in 1993.

Kurt - 00:17:06:

Not about anybody else.

Jackie - 00:17:11:

Bob.

Bob - 00:17:11:

Well, I'm going to give you the quick and easy story. Suzette and I met on match.com. Even though we're Gen Xers, we're like, you got to fish where the fish are in the early 2000s. And that's how it happened. We talked for a little bit on the phone, decided to meet. We went to a faux winery in Blue Ash, Ohio, which is a suburb of Cincinnati. As soon as she walked in, I knew that she was the one. Fell head over heels in love. She i later found out felt the absolute same and that was the that was the start So quick and easy. match.com of all things for Gen Xer. It's insanity to me, but that's the love of my life through an algorithm.

Kurt - 00:18:03:

I love it. I love it.

Jackie - 00:18:05:

So gentlemen, what are some signs for women, right? What do women need to know? When a man doesn't think she's the one? What are some of the ways that a woman can say? I'm not this person's one. What should they look for?

Bob - 00:18:24:

I think if a guy is not paying attention. That's the story I hear. If you're getting to know somebody and they're not paying attention, that's a red flag. And I was all about red flags. So I had dated some other women between my divorce and meeting Suzette. And it was like. I had learned enough in my first marriage that one red flag was enough. One, it was like, it wasn't three strikes. It was one, one and out. So I think people think they can fix other people. And you can't fix people. If it's broken going in, you ain't fixing it. So one red flag. Go. There are a million other people out there, probably 10 million others.

Bob - 00:19:09:

Another red flag is... When who you're with doesn't introduce you to their friends or their family or anyone else. They kind of keep you outside of that. Because I remember with certain folks. And they never met people who were close to me. Wouldn't take him home. Wouldn't introduce them to my friends because I knew that they would be, they would ask the question, why are you with her? What's going on here. And one of the things that I learned over time is that when people, when you have people who are close to you. They see you with other people in ways that you don't yourself. And so it's important to have a circle of people that you trust around you. That can help you evaluate who you're with. Because at that point, most people are gonna say, yes, that's the one for me. And they're not gonna see the red flags because they're blinded by however they feel. And so it's important to move beyond how you feel, especially if you're trying to spend your life with someone. And get all the work done. Actually, this is a funny story. So Valerie has people in her family that are police officers. So. She had a background check run on me. Pretty sure he was like, I need to know if there are any red flags or not. So go ahead and run, run his name through the system and see what comes up. So that, but in that funny story, you need people who will do things like that to understand, to help you evaluate, you know, who you're with. And so, but that's one of the key red flags is if someone's not bringing you into their full circles or lives with friends and family, I would watch out.

Jackie - 00:21:08:

I wish I knew you both in 1997. It might have saved me some trouble. Grant and Don, anything to add there?

Don - 00:21:19:

So I would say as advice that I give to our daughters, right? I think it's really important that... You're impressed with the dreams. And the work ethic behind the dreams of somebody that you're looking to build a life with or become intimate with. So one, if they don't talk about the future, red flag. Two, if they talk about the future, but their work ethic doesn't line up with it, red flag. Because most people, when you're young, you haven't accomplished a lot yet. So it's really about where you think you're headed and what are the work ethic things you're doing to try to get there and discover and figure it out. And so really it's about people that are future driven because I want our daughters to, independent of the finances of it. To be with somebody that's gonna figure out how to build a great life, what that means for them. And that means somebody with enough hustle. Right, that's going to be able to win and overcome. So those are a couple of red flags that when I'm thinking about it and chatting with our daughters that I share.

Jackie - 00:22:27:

Now, Don, you said that for... Our daughters, but not for David. Tell me why.

Don - 00:22:37:

Uh Good question.

Kurt - 00:22:42:

She's tough on you, buddy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, roasting Don tonight.

Don - 00:22:47:

You're probably teasing out some bias, but I also think you asked the question if you would... Talk to your daughters, but I'm not sure the tape would show that. I have the same perspective for David. There's really not difference there. I just think I was thinking about more my daughters in that moment. I think the same red flags would apply. Got it. Because you want somebody that you can build with. And that you can overcome things with. Because most people don't build a great life. Right from zero to 100. And it's just this straight line of fun and success and no challenges. I think everybody deals with some semblance of challenges. And so the person that you select, Right. Are they going to be right there with you pushing through? And I think that's crucially important.

Jackie - 00:23:38:

Absolutely. Thanks for that. Gentlemen, what does love mean to you? What's your definition of love?

Kurt - 00:23:49:

So, you know, to me, you know, People talk about their job and they look forward to it. You look forward to going to your job. Tomorrow. And to me, love is... Do you look forward to waking up with this person tomorrow? I mean, do you genuinely go to bed looking forward to tomorrow? And then it's also, does this person genuinely make you strive to want to make them happy? Do you sit there, do you daydream about how can I make this person happy? What can I do today to make this person happy? Those are just a couple things to me is what. Love means to me.

Don - 00:24:31:

I'll go next on this, but I can be brief. I remember when... Jackie and I first started dating. And I knew pretty early. That I was done for, that she was the one. But my dad... Was the one that crystallized it. And he said, I hadn't seen you smile like this. Years. What's going on. Did you find someone? Because I've not seen this many teeth from you. In years. And for me, it's somebody, what love is, is somebody that can change your demeanor just because they're around you. That if you've had a tough day, that you've had a tough week at work, if you're fighting through some financial things, if you're fighting through some health things, that person's presence makes the day better, makes the moment better, makes you feel better just by their presence around you, because you know they're with you. And that's how Jackie makes me feel.

Bob - 00:25:33:

For me, Suzette is the person that I want. To aspire to be better for. I want to make her happy 24 hours a day. I daydream about her. I want her to be proud of me. And I just love talking to her. And that's kind of in a nutshell.

Kurt - 00:25:57:

Love to me is... When you think about what you would do for somebody. And there's nothing that you wouldn't do. To make your spouse, your wife, in this case Valerie, happy. There's nothing I wouldn't do. There's no pain that I wouldn't go through. To make sure that she had what she needed. And then just thinking about what we were talking about, who's the person that I wanna tell everything that's happened. Because when we can't talk. You know, even though we've been together for 30 years, we can talk on the phone for three, four hours like we did when we were first dating. And so it's because of that connection that goes deep and it goes beyond physical attraction. You know, she's still, you know. When she walked into the room, it was almost like it was. We first met so there's the physical attraction but we know over time that changes but we're still connected in a way that it doesn't matter what's happening. I feel the same way and it grows over time. And so, but love is also action. It's not just the feelings that you have for someone. What are you willing to do? For somebody, it should be an action orientation when we think about what love is. And so that's as it was multi-layered so who's my best friend who's the person that I want to spend time with no matter where we are. And who's the person that I would do anything for. And there's only one and it's her.

Bob - 00:27:36:

I love that. Jackie, let me just interject for a second. Kurt touched on something there. My wife is smoking hot. She is a perfect 10. And so when dudes my age are going through the shit of their first marriages and they don't know what to do, I'm like the marriage whisperer and they come to me and talk to me about how they should. Operate their lives. I'm like, find your soulmate. My wife's a 10. I hit the jackpot. It took me a long time to get there, but my lottery ticket got punched. And so, Kurt, thanks for reminding me. I tell her all the time, my lottery ticket.

Grant - 00:28:20:

Hey, Bob, you got a 10, 15 years ago. I got an 11, 15 years ago.

Bob - 00:28:26:

I know. Grant, that's the way to play it, man. I wasn't happy like you.

Grant - 00:28:31:

Hey, listen, man. Hey, listen, he's flexing. Granted.

Bob - 00:28:37:

I love it.

Jackie - 00:28:38:

I love it. I love it.

Grant - 00:28:38:

I'll tell you this thing, Jackie, about Bob, just to echo his truthfulness, right? So. Bob and I think a lot alike about marriage, right? But there's some differences. So Bob would hear me sometimes go, hey, Jackie, I don't know if I want to do that. He was like... Don't say that he's like how can you, how can you tell her no I was like you just do it you just work up to it and you say and you say no And Bob's looking at me like, man, you're crazy, man. He's like, you got to start every sentence with my love. Even if you disagree, and I'm listening to him, and the first time he said it, I was like, this dude's crazy. Second time he said it, I said, still crazy. By the fourth time, I was like, hey, Bob, tell me more about that thing you do so that you don't argue and you start out everything with my love. And then I became his student.

Jackie - 00:29:46:

I love that, y'all. That's so awesome. You know, and thank you because... By the time we had gone around the circle and got to Kurt, I was feeling Bob, the tears welling up. And then we went to smoking hot and I was like, all right, I'm back in it. Thank you.

Bob - 00:30:05:

It's your control. It's your control.

Jackie - 00:30:09:

What is a man's responsibility to his wife in a relationship, right? So we hear so often about, you know, men having all these requirements for women and they're not bringing enough to the table. But what are a man's responsibilities from your perspectives to his wife in that relationship?

Kurt - 00:30:31:

Jackie, I've been waiting for this question. I knew this was coming. I'm going to tell you something. My brothers out there our age who are, they wish for a Barbie doll and they are full of it because they have these expectations. Guys are so arrogant. They think you got the ugliest guy on the planet. He thinks he deserves something. It's crazy to me. I don't know if it's like this with younger generations because Jesus, I have guys, I have friends who are single or divorced. Like they, they treat it, they're just, they're just, they're off the charts. So that's all I have to say. Like guys are arrogant and they think they expect much better than they could ever get. They bring nothing to the table. And they think they deserve a Miss America or something. I don't know.

Don - 00:31:28:

I don't mind being a little old school here, right? Like my wife, Jackie, is an amazing professional. Best-selling author, podcast host in the top 5%, co-founder, all of these things. But if she doesn't want to work, I need to be able to financially grow our family so she doesn't have to. I believe that if she wants to work, grow a career, then that's great. I think that a husband should give his wife financial choice. Right. Based on that, number one. Number two. Is I think that the honor and integrity that, and this doesn't mean I'm perfect in this, you asked the question of what a husband should be. Is somebody that the wife can depend on. As her rock. Because women go through so many different things at all different ages, right? Whether it's the child rearing years, whether it's the professional component, and, and, and. And so being a husband that is in tune to the emotional needs of their wife is something I'm getting better in my second marriage that I didn't even understand. 20 years ago. I just didn't even understand that. Right. And so I think that the husband is supposed to be available so that the wife can live the dreams that she wants, whether that be inside or out of the home. In corporate America raising the kids, but I want my wife to have the choice. Jackie will come home from days, sometimes tough days at work. I don't want to do this anymore. I said, then stop. Right? Like, I think that's an important thing that that you should be able to do. Sometimes she just wants to talk things out. And I had to learn how to listen, not solve. Right? So the husband needs to be what the wife needs him for in that moment. Not the way he would perceive solving that particular problem. But those are some of the things that I had to learn as I grew up and matured and still learning, but certainly better than I was five years ago, four years ago, three years ago, and yesterday.

Jackie - 00:33:37:

Thanks, Don.

Kurt - 00:33:39:

So I think there are a few things that... A husband should be responsible for. One of those is studying your wife. Under a variety of different situations and doing things to preserve your wife. And so that's one of the things that I try to do is to look at situations where, you know, you could be picking up a glass in the kitchen because you look at that, you look at the eye contact that you get when you walk in and you know, oh, maybe you're upset because I didn't put this fork away. I didn't put this dish in the dishwasher like I need to. And being being aware enough of the cues and the signals that we get. And so part of that means studying and being in engage in kind of in contact with, you know, how our wives are at their best. I heard someone say one of the responsibilities of a husband is to blow fresh air. Into their wives as if they were sales. And so you want to be able to blow fresh air into your wife and let her know that she's valued. And don't let anyone else be the one that's pouring into your wife and showing value in a way that you should be showing as a husband. And so I think that's important that you're not getting that validation. Anywhere else. And so I think that's the one of the key things is what should I be doing to help my wife be the best that she can be, whatever she wants to do. And then you become as less about what you need and more about what she needs. And then one of the things that I find is that when I give Valerie what she needs, then she gives me what I need. And so it's important to be. Other-centered, and to do that in a way where there's no one else in the world who's... Demonstrating more commitment and echoing the value that she has. So that's what I would say some of our chief responsibilities are, but who's the chief cheerleader for your wife? It should be the husband.

Grant - 00:35:50:

The keeper of equity. I think that's just kind of the one word for what Kurt said, but there's just so much. Implicit bias in the world. We come to the table as male. I come to the table as a white male and everything's leaning in my favor and just making certain that we can do whatever we can to make the world equitable for our loved ones. I wouldn't have said that 46 years ago, but today's world, it's just, it becomes. Crystal clear how lucky I have been. And it's not luck. How much bias has been tilted in my favor. And that's just wrong. We have a responsibility, a duty, an obligation every day. To think about that. And it frigging hurts, makes my brain hurt. But we have an obligation to do it. This is what we need to do.

Jackie - 00:36:58:

Thanks for that, Grant. That brings me to my next question. Each of you have daughters. How does your relationship with your daughter or daughters influence your relationship with your wife?

Don - 00:37:10:

One of the things that took me time to realize about my relationship with Diana and, My wife, Jackie. And when Jack and I got together, I... I gained a daughter and that was a beautiful thing. Many people listening are part of blended families, right? And I gained a daughter. But in that situation, You don't have a relationship with a single mother if you don't have a great relationship with their child. That it just doesn't work. And so it required of me to understand that story, to accept that story, and then to make sure that I was working on a relationship with Jackie and with Diana. And now... Fast forward, right? Diana and I have our own relationship that is independent of our relationship together as a unit. And so I think it's important to be able to show that love that is stronger than the biological. It is a way to demonstrate commitment to the future of that new union. And the other thing I think it's important for us to be is model. The type of men that your daughter is going to go out in the world and choose. And that's all I'll say there, but those two things I think are really important.

Jackie - 00:38:38:

Absolutely.

Bob - 00:38:40:

Yeah, I would echo that. My relationship with my daughters is critical to the overall happiness of the family. Suzette is the real glue of the family. She keeps everything together, but I'm the love center of the family. And my two daughters, both independently of one another, need things from me as the male figure in the family. And so, for example, Sophie needs to know that men are OK and that you can have positive relationships and you can joke. And that's the role that I play. So I have roles to play with my daughters that, in fact, strengthen. This role that I play kind of like Don said, quasi-independent of the family. It helps all of us. But I'm not going to lie, like Suzette and I are now empty nesters and we love that more than anything. So there's that piece of it, too. But, you know, we're we're a very we're a four person unit. It's the three women and me and we're tight. And we all have different roles to play. And so I... Recognize that center of love that I play and I give my daughters. Hopefully what they need to do the kind of things that Don said, be a role model for the relationships that they'll have. For understanding how they'll engage with males in authority figure positions, things like that. So it's a great question, Jack.

Grant - 00:40:23:

So the other night... Maggie, our daughter and son were over here, their kids. Dinner had been finished. We were, you know, I cleared the table and I started doing the dishes. And Laura said, I'll do that. And so I just... Took her at her word and just kind of backed away from the sink and was going to go about my way. And then Maggie looked at me and said, just in very crisp terms, you can do better than that.

Bob - 00:40:55:

Wow.

Jackie - 00:40:56:

Wow.

Grant - 00:40:58:

So, you know, I, you know, I've always let Laura say that and I've always walked away and, you know, I had my kitchen pass, so to speak. And, you know, Maggie has done a lot to make me aware of. Men's bad behavior. We've got a lot of them and she'll call me out really quick. So she's got a safe space to call me out. It's not fun, but she's got a safe space.

Bob - 00:41:24:

Yeah, it's interesting that you've got the same DNA. But then your kids are very different from one another. So if I think about my daughters and how different they are, they're both enormously talented. And so they're different versions of Valerie, I guess, if you think about it. So when I see them walk into the house, I was like, no, that's not Valerie. That's that's Reese or no, that's not Valerie. That's Kayla. And so they, their essences are the same. The there's just like, they're just being is similar, but the way they express themselves is very different. Uh, so Reese is the, the, the artist. The dancer, the... The one who's got lots of talent. And so for me, when we're interacting, it's about, you know, confidence. How do I help you become more confident? And nurturing that in her. And so when I do that, that, you know, Valerie obviously is a fan. Want to do that and nurturing her and helping her through whatever's going on and and doing in a way that works for her because you know i've made the mistake many times of not doing it the right way uh and then you know valerie will be like why did you say that like perfect case in point yesterday i was uh so reese's uh Now the final member of the family, she's got her license, not her license, but her permit. So we went out on a road drive yesterday and I was doing too much backseat driving. Yesterday. I was trying to be quiet, but I couldn't. Bowery was like, hey, she doesn't need all these points of feedback. If you're going to do it, sit in the front seat. If you're not. You'd be in the backseat. Don't say anything. And so our interaction, you know, we can see some of those things. And then actually, as we were talking, Caleb just FaceTime me while we were. Filming. Doing a podcast. And so for Kayla. The thing that I've had to learn is about this idea of emotional availability that I didn't experience growing up. That wasn't something that. You know, I wasn't telling my father, hey, hey, dad, you know, I really need you to be more emotionally available for me. Like, that's a whole new process. And I didn't have any sisters. And so I didn't experience that in that way. And so that's something that Kayla's helped me with is recognizing that. Know, while she's accomplished and while she's extremely confident. And I don't find a whole lot of people who can argue against her. So she is going to law, planning to go to law school at some point, not surprisingly. But the thing that she let me know is I still, I still need my dad. Even though I have all these things and these accomplishments and, you know, my master's at NYU, I still need you. I still need validation from you. I need you to send me flowers. I still need you to send me gifts. I need a gift from you so I know that you are the one that picked the gift out and you were listening to what I was saying, that you care about what's going on in my life. And so that was. I mean, it hurt to recognize that I had been like, you think you're doing the right thing for your family, your kids, your wife. And then we find out that you're missing the mark. There's nothing that hurts more than that. And so I... Had to do some soul searching and some shifting and some changing. To make sure that I was giving her what she needed. Because this is something I didn't learn. Nobody told me. I didn't know how to do it. Other than just by failing. And then finding ways to fix it. And so I think the lesson is this. Hopefully we're all in a state where those things are fixable, where you can learn those things. Not only does that apply to your relationship with your daughter, but you can do the same thing with your wife based on things that you're learning, like Grant's example. About, hey, you can do better. Like, I think our daughters have the ability to speak to us in a way where they can tell us that we can get better in a way that we may not hear from anybody else. So that's what I was saying about that.

Jackie - 00:45:37:

Awesome. Thank you all for that. So for my two long timers. How do you keep your marriage fresh after all these years?

Bob - 00:45:48:

It's important to have goals in your relationship. It's important to always be moving towards something or moving forward towards something. And when you get complacent, that's where problems start to creep in. So, you know, what are you working toward as, you know, whether that's could be a business, it could be vacation, it could be a variety of different things. Traveling could be a lot of different things. I was asking Valerie, you know, what stories can I share? I was trying to get as much permission in advance as I could, so I didn't share anything that I shouldn't.

Jackie - 00:46:21:

Smart.

Kurt - 00:46:22:

So I've been cleared to tell this one story. So we... Had this trip to go to Europe and we had been planning it for three years. And had an amazing time. And we got back. And we were like, what's going on? Because things were just getting a little rocky in some of our conversations. And Valerie said, you know, we don't do anything. I was like, what? We just do you know how much time we just spent in Europe together with nobody else? It was just being you. We've been playing this trip for three years and you're going to come back and tell me that we don't do anything like what? Let's go. So I was confused, to put it mildly. And frustrated. You know, what she started to share is that. We don't spend time together on an ongoing basis. We don't have things that we're working toward. And so, yeah, it was great that we went to Europe, but we're back and here we are again. There's nothing else has changed. What are we working toward? And so that's... An example of what can happen when you put all your stock in, you know, who we're going to have this vacation, everything is going to be perfect. There needs to be ongoing maintenance in your relationship, for lack of a better way to think about it. We have to be investing in making deposits in our relationships, whether that's date night every week or something that you want to do. It doesn't have you could just be hanging out watching Game of Thrones, like, you know, whatever, whatever it is. But what is that thing that you do together? Because a lot of people spend time there in each other's presence, but they're, you know, somebody's upstairs or somebody's downstairs or somebody's on the couch while somebody else is reading a book while somebody else is watching TV. So you're just in your. In physical space but that doesn't mean you're maintaining the relationship so what what are we doing to make sure that we're spending quality time together we're investing in each other trying to get to know each other because the thing is we still as many years as we've been married there's lots of stuff we still don't know about each other And so continue the exploration and the discovery so that things stay fresh.

Jackie - 00:48:43:

Thanks Kurt. Grant, anything to add to that?

Grant - 00:48:47:

Yeah, so we've been buried a long time. Um... And you go through eras. You know, we, we, we. We formed two companies together and, you know, Kurt was talking about goals. The companies just kind of set our goals and we just. We survived, we got through survival, and then we got through the growth period, and then we got through this, we sold them. And, you know, so we. The company's provided a lot of adventure for us for a long time, kept things, that kept things fresh. The last, you know, the last couple of years, kind of, we've, we've sold our companies. We don't have companies anymore. We don't have a payroll. We don't have the, we just have the two of us. Which is great. I mean, we've always spent. An inordinate amount of time together, just a lot of time together, eight hours a day, and then we get home and then we spend quiet time. So now we're just trying to kind of reinvent that, which means. Continuing to be adventurous, continuing to be curious, continuing to do things outside our comfort zone. We went to a math lecture on NC State's campus last Tuesday night. I mean, we were the dumbest math people in the room, but it was just fun to be on NC State's campus where there are... Retiring math professors and aspiring mathematicians all in a room with this with this Ivy League professor lecturing to them. And we just, you know, the first two slides of his deck, we understood. The next 20, we're looking at each other like, why are we here? But it was just fun to take the pulse of the room. And it was just, we were uncomfortable, which creates a kind of attention that's kind of fun. So it's just kind of looking for stuff that's fun to do. That's different. So it's just, we're in a roller coaster car together, having fun, ups and downs. And you got to have you got to find ways to find those highs and lows keep it absolutely keep it changing

Jackie - 00:50:56:

Now for my second timers, how do you navigate the challenges of a blended family?

Bob - 00:51:02:

Blended family. I'm friends with Suzette's ex. We have forged a path together because they have to co-parent. It's nothing that I would have ever imagined, you know, when I was a kid and parents were divorced, it was throwing dishes and wrecking cars and bad things happened, but it's a different world. And so the blended family, you know. Like I said earlier, my daughters have different needs. I try to fulfill their needs. And I try to be the best dad that I can for each of them. My daughter, Cassie, needs a big hug and attention in a different way than Sophie needs. And Suzette and I try to stay grounded in the fact that we're soulmates and we love each other and we're going to move forward. You know, if you saw the show, Deadwood, Swearingen and his his Chinese friend had this saying hang die. And it's totally inappropriate to our relationship. But Suzette and I will just look at each other and say hang die. And we actually say hang die, MFR. That's what we actually say to each other. And we do this. So like it's hang die. I'm never like, that's our code word for like whatever happens. It's you and I against the world. We'll pull these girls in and we'll help them and we'll, we'll make things work. But in the end it's you and I, you know, above all else.

Jackie - 00:52:42:

Love it.

Bob - 00:52:45:

Uh...

Don - 00:52:46:

For me, The blended family part was really difficult. And when I say was really difficult is because it's better. Right, than it was at the beginning, right? You know, with Sierra and Mariah and David, there was a sense of... Because things were changing when my first marriage ended. And that was real and rough. And a lot of raw emotions were there and shared. And so. I had to... Think about it long term. And weather the storm. Is the best way I could describe it without like taking the whole podcast to go through it. And. Re-establish individual relationships with Sierra, with Mariah, with David, as well as Diana. And not assume that anything in the past was going to hold. Right, assuming that it wasn't, and dig in and check and maintain and grow. And it took me a while to understand that, right? So it really wasn't so much the people around me. It was that when, as a man, when you don't know what you're supposed to give. That's actually the worst place. When we know what we're supposed to do, we'll go do it. Or if we don't, we're making a deliberate decision not to. But when you don't know the right things to do, that point of confusion, especially in emotive things and relationship things, is really where a lot of stress and anxiety and things occur. And so I would encourage people that are in that blended family. Arena Remember, number one, that in my case, Jackie, I had one woman that I had to please. That was my wife. I made that decision, that commitment. And then I had responsibilities with my kids. Right, to meet them where they were and not try to accelerate their journey. Prematurely. And just love people while they were learning a new environment, a new context, new relationships. And so it takes a lot of patience. It takes a lot of optimism, some cases, in our case. But I will tell you that if you continue to push through, one of the things that my daughters in particular. Um, shared. They were very, very focused. On seeing me happy. And over the years, that's actually what broke. Things in a positive direction. Is that we determine that our love for each other was more important than some of the circumstance. And they wanted to see their dad happy. And so that's what I will share on that without like it would be its own separate podcast. But I will say for folks that are in love and on round two, I'm here for you. I understand. And I know there's some drama on tap going on, right? If we're going to be like real, if we're going to get on here and drink and lie, all right, fine. It was great. Everybody loved it. I was amazing. I made no missteps. If we're going to keep it real, it's a learning process. Right. And you've got to be willing to push through that learning process to get to that other side. Where people know that even though you have a new relationship, that that doesn't mean you love them less.

Jackie - 00:56:20:

All of us know that marriage is hard for every person. How have you worked through the tough times in your relationship without throwing in the towel?

Bob - 00:56:31:

I have never had any tough times. So good. Tough, tough time. I'm sorry. Mmm. Okay. Now back to the show.

Kurt - 00:56:49:

You know, there are a few things. One, I was fortunate to have role modeling. My parents were married for 45 years. And Valerie's parents are 65 years and going strong. When you've got that modeling where you can see someone who's made a decision that this is it. That no matter what, we're going to be together. And so I think coming into our marriage, we had that as a mindset that there was, this wasn't a temporary thing that we were doing. So I think that that's helpful. The other thing is to think about sometimes we... Magnify small things. And when you magnify small things, then it makes it seem bigger than it actually is. And versus thinking about the whole relationship that you're in and the alternative. Because sometimes you, you. Get enamored with well, you know, what would it be like if I wasn't married right now? I'd have this freedom. I could do this. I could do that. But then. You know, I have friends that aren't married. And when I talk to them. I don't want to be them. There's like no, I would not trade places with them for any amount of money. For multiple reasons. And so that's the thing that's helped. Because once when you're thinking about things like that, it's helpful to look at the alternative. And it's just not. Great people are like, oh my gosh, I wish I had a relationship like yours. And so that helps me recognize how fortunate and blessed that I am. And so that helps to push through some difficulties is not to over. Emphasize things that are small. Because at the end of the day, this is a lot of what we fight about or argue about. This just doesn't matter. And sometimes we're trying to change. Our wives. As opposed to recognizing. The uniqueness that they have. And then accepting that and then saying, well, let me not fight against that. That's how she was made. That's how she's wired. That's why we compliment each other when sometimes we're not on the same page. But it's us fitting together in a way that's going to help create great things. If we just pat, if we push past the small things. So I think that's the keys, like what are we doing together that's great. The small things, then they don't matter. I was talking to a couple, they've been married for 55 years. And they said, you know what? The stuff we used to fight about isn't worth a hill of beans. And so that's to have the right perspective about difficulty and to expect that it's going to happen. But then realize why you've been put together.

Jackie - 00:59:58:

Good advice. Good advice.

Bob - 01:00:00:

You know, Jackie, I'm listening to Kurt, and I think everything he's saying is spot on. But I found myself in this place of like the divorce whisperer. And I like have people reaching out to me like a friend of a friend. I'm like, do I know you? And the guy's like, I don't know my marriage. I think it's over. I don't know what to do. I'm like, I don't even know you. There are clearly, though, marriages that are broken. And I found myself. I'm so happy. I love my wife so much. I'm like, yeah, man, you're it's over. Like you got to just bust it, break it off. You've got your 56 year old year old. You know, maybe you got 20 years left. Go find happiness. Like put yourself first for a change. So I feel very conflicted. I didn't have great role models growing up, but I understand there are people who have had wonderful marriages like Kurt and Grant. And I hate to be that person. But sometimes you hear people and there's so much. I don't know, retribution going on. There's so much ill will. And you just know, like, there's no way you're not happy. The other person's not happy. They tell me there are 50 reasons why they're not happy. And I'm like. There's somebody out there for you. And you're going to be, I think people don't realize like you're going to die someday, like maximize your happiness. You don't need me to tell you, but for some reason, I have somehow been the person people come to. It's too much. It's too much. So if you're listening to this, I'm not, I can't help you. I'm not a licensed therapist. I'm just a guy. You know, I don't know anything.

Don - 01:01:53:

What I'll say is, whether it's days or weeks. And this is me talking from just my personal perspective. Are you chasing the problem so that you're right and looking for more evidence of how right you are? Or are you chasing the solution? Anytime with Jackie that we're not on the same page if I'm chasing the problem problem gets bigger If I'm trying to amplify, what is she not doing? What is she not saying? What am I? All of those things. But if I'm chasing the solution, it is always really quick. Like it's always a matter of hours. It's always a matter of a cup of coffee. It's always, if I, and not even, talk about her. I'm chasing the solution. It never lasts long. If I fall into the trap of chasing the problem, then it lasts longer. And that comes back to Jackie's earlier question. Of what husbands owe to their wives and really what do partners owe to each other? Like you can use whatever acronym that you want, right? But you're trying to build something amazing together, then I think we owe one another that we're chasing the solution. And that's probably the biggest growth area I've had over the last two years. In a personal relationship. Like you have breakthroughs as you're learning something because I don't have 30 years in or 40 years in, right? But I know that this relationship, I want till death do us part. So therefore I'm listening to, like I'm super open. Right, to how the Hall of Famers, right, have done it. Right? And chasing the solution is my advice.

Jackie - 01:03:39:

So this next question, y'all, just to say I'm going to ask this question in general. This is my disclaimer. The answers can be a combination of personal experience, conversations with friends, other information sources. But why, from your perspective, do men cheat?

Bob - 01:03:57:

Look, I love my wife more than anything. People come to me because they want the same level of happiness that I found in my second marriage. And so they tell me things they wouldn't tell their priest or anybody else in the world. And it's a lot of weight to bear. Mentioning. Because they want to get caught. They don't know how to get out of a relationship in a, in a way that is gutsy. And so I know 10 guys. Who have left their phones conveniently in a place where their wife would see it when their other was going to text them. So men cheat, A, because they're assholes, generally, and B, because they want to get caught. That's my experience. I can't speak for the why. I think I got a pretty good angle on it, but that's my interpretation, let's put it.

Jackie - 01:04:54:

Wow. Thanks, Bob.

Grant - 01:04:57:

So there's an obvious answer, which is an integrity answer. Right. Because you made vows, you either keep them or you don't. So that stands on its own. Right. There's an integrity component there. The second piece, and this has to do with the male ego. Is you think the answer is outside of your house and not inside your house. Whatever it is you're feeling, whatever it is you don't think you're getting, whatever excuse you think you're going to use, you think the answer is outside of your home. And the answer is in your home. Chasing the solution with the person that you said you loved. And that is my perspective. Right. So it's not belittling the integrity piece, but people cut corners on things all the time. Right? Why does a man act outside of the vows that you said in front of God and people and everyone? Is you think the answer to whatever problem you're having in your relationship is outside of your home? And really it is with the person because I will say this and I believe this.

Bob - 01:06:05:

A thousand percent.

Don - 01:06:07:

My experience talking to hundreds of people. Women know what's wrong with the relationship. Both what the man's doing and what they're doing to contribute to friction in the relationship. If as a man you listen completely to your woman. They know the path, but they need you and Unison to work the path to fix it together. But women are astute. They're emotionally in tune. When they're bickering or picking at you or doing whatever men excuse, they know they're doing it. It isn't an accident. If you can ever get to the point where you can talk about what's wrong and listen to your wife. And then chase the solution together, most people can fix what they think is wrong. But men think it's not fixable. So they just go into the financial provider mode. And then they think the solution to their emotions are outside the home. And that's why those are the two reasons that I think that men cheat.

Jackie - 01:07:05:

Thanks for sharing that, Don.

Grant - 01:07:07:

I mean, I think somewhere along the line, somebody got bored. And I guess if I go back to your earlier question, what are my responsibilities? Not let her get bored.

Jackie - 01:07:25:

I love that Grant.

Grant - 01:07:26:

So it's just like, it's my responsibility. Where she doesn't, if she's. Because of me. I'm not bringing game to the table. So somebody who's gotten bored either I've gotten bored, she's gotten bored and that's why. So keep it adventurous, keep it fun. Don't let boredom set in and that's work. That's just frigging work.

Jackie - 01:07:52:

That's true.

Bob - 01:07:54:

As I've talked to folks. I think there are a couple of things. One is that... I think there are some men who are addicted to conquest. And then after you. Been successful. That addiction, whatever that is, doesn't necessarily stop for some people. And so now that I have what I wanted, now I'm bored. So now I need to continue this cycle of conquest. So there's that. There's the thrill and the excitement of doing something that you know isn't exactly right. And so there's some folks that want to get caught, but there's some folks that I think I'm good enough not to get caught. But I enjoy the thrill behind that. So seeking this thing that I know I shouldn't be doing. And then the other reason is that people are trying to fill emptiness inside of themselves by doing something external. So there's something missing. There's a hole that I have in me. And so if I think by doing this apart from my wife, I'm going to feel like Don, you were saying, like, I'll be able to fill this one need I have while I'm doing this other thing. And so you're chasing these things, but ultimately the problem is internal, is inside of the man, the husband, whoever it is, is an internal problem. You're trying to fill it with external things. And so that's the challenge that I see with lots of folks is that they're not strong enough to recognize that. The problem is with me when I have somebody, you know, whether they walk past me looking a certain way or saying something in my ear, if that's attractive to me, then what's wrong with me? Is not just the person that they be pursuing or maybe the band pursuing. But there's something wrong. Inside of them. And so that's the thing that is important for men to recognize and to also never put yourself in a situation where you're going to do something that you're going to regret. And so. You know, I plan never to do that, but I also recognize that I'm not strong enough to say, oh, there's no way I'm going to do that. I think is being smart enough to recognize not to put yourself in a situation where you're going to put your hand in the cookie jar and you shouldn't. Best thing to do to keep your hands out of the cookie jars, get the cookies out of the house. And so I think that's the other thing to be mindful of in terms of whatever weaknesses that we all have is to make sure that we don't put ourselves in harm's way.

Jackie - 01:10:33:

Absolutely. What advice do you give to couples for whom marriage is on the horizon?

Kurt - 01:10:41:

Don't.

Bob - 01:10:42:

Up.

Don - 01:10:43:

Good luck.

Kurt - 01:10:45:

Hey, listen, so I have lots of opinions on anything, but for the gentleman, get your money right. Because I hear all this stuff, independent women, I make my own money. I get all that. But when kids enter the picture, have you saved enough money where your wife or partner can stay home and be with the kids if that's what she wants to do? Right? Money is such a huge stressor. That understanding how you're going to financially prepare in this world. Allows you to focus on each other. But if you don't have that piece right, it becomes all you talk about. And I've experienced that piece of it. So I encourage people to really think about how you want to live fiscally, what careers you want to do, buy a house, rent, save, all those things that aren't lovey-dovey to talk about. But are what so many people spend time talking about if you don't have it right. And then the second thing that I would say is you have to make sure that your goals are aligned. If one person is good with just kind of a steady as they go and the other is a total dreamer and a dream chaser, that's going to be a lifestyle mismatch, even with that love and emotion. So I think you have to be on the same accord with how you want to chase this thing called life. And that's different than the feelings of love and that feelings of she's so beautiful and all those different things. So those are a couple of things that I share with folks when I'm asked.

Grant - 01:12:26:

50 years ago, 46 years ago, Laura and I did not talk about money before we did this. We did not talk about goals. After we got married, we talked about money, we talked about goals, we were just lucky. I mean, we were just lucky. It turned out that we figured out how to make money. And it turned out that our goals were aligned. And so those are important. But my encouragement would be not try to figure out how not to get married but try to figure out how to get married how to align goals, how to figure out as a. I don't agree with Donald that the man should be providing No, I just believe that the couple should figure out how to make enough money together to accomplish goals. So try to figure out how to combine to make the goals and the money align. Because if you get into a good marriage, there's nothing better in this world. Nothing better. And try to figure out how to fuse it together versus we can't do it because we're not sure whether we're going to make enough money. We're not sure whether we're completely aligned on goals. Try to figure out how to combine it and make it work because it's glorious when it does.

Jackie - 01:13:58:

Thanks for that, Grant. Bob and Kurt?

Bob - 01:14:03:

I would say it's about communication skills and If you don't have your communication. Down, the chances of your marriage lasting are No. You can't fix somebody. You're not fixing another adult. They're not changing their way. And what I've seen happen too many times is that people just. It's like... Festivus, you know, from Seinfeld, you know, it's a list of grievances. And most marriages end because there's a list of grievances. That grievance. You know, it's when you're 22 and you're married and you didn't take the garbage out or you didn't take the trash out and it just. Pounds and grows geometrically because you you're then not willing to talk about it. And so I know a lot of 50-year-old plus guys. Who have 20 years, 25 years of grievances. Because they never learned how to talk about it. Because we're Gen Xers and you kept that shit to yourself and you didn't be a wuss about it. You internalized it. Um... So it's a lot of backlash against the way we were raised. And I don't know how it's still playing out, but my gut is. That if the communication isn't there, You know, that's the challenge. When I hear young people getting married, I'm like, You know, they're spending 25 grand. They've got the... The paparazzi photographer who's going to take pictures of him out at Biltmore, you know, like it was a festival setting or something. I'm like, you're just setting yourself up for a fairy tale that's not going to last. It's more fundamental. Do you have your shit straight? Do you have your fundamentals set up? Do you talk? Do you grow together? You know, those kind of things.

Jackie - 01:16:03:

Kurt.

Kurt - 01:16:05:

The first question I ask folks is why? Pretty fundamental question, but a lot of people don't have the answer to it. Why do you want to get married? What do you think is going to happen after you get married? What good is going to come from it? And so asking that question reveals some things about people's perspectives and their expectations, because one of the reasons that marriages don't work out. Because you have two people who have very different expectations of what marriage is supposed to be And if you don't start to explore those things before you get married, then you're going to have issues. Now, you're still going to have issues anyway, but at least you have a fighting chance because you've got aligned expectations around that. So why? What's what do you what do you think is going to happen? Do you want to have a family? Do you want to have kids? What's your expectation around what your lifestyle is going to be like? Asking those fundamental questions is important. So that to Bob's point, you don't have, you know, I had no lots of folks that have had these amazing destination weddings and have gotten divorced in a year or less. It almost seems like the more money you spend on your wedding, the less likely it is that you're going to stay together based on my small sample size. So the why piece is really important. And then something that some folks told us when Valerie and I were dating was. When people get married, your families are actually getting married to each other. And so that's something to understand when you first get together. The things that are great about your families and the things that aren't so great about your families are going to come together and collide. And so what does that mean? So when you're thinking about conflict resolution or communications, as Bob was just talking about, how do you resolve conflict? Do you do you blow up and throw glasses glass across the room or do you use the silent treatment and you go on silent for weeks and months at a time? About a particular issue, understanding how you deal with conflict is important because that's one of the fundamental things around. If you don't understand that. Where I'm going to convince you that my point of view is right and you're going to beat somebody to the ground and they're going to silent treatment you. You've got no shot. So. Yeah. Understanding those two fundamental things, like why, why do I want to do this? Because it's hard. And then what are the family dynamics that we're going to have when we get married? And then when you have kids, are your parenting styles going to be the same? So do you have one parent that's like, you can do whatever you want? And the other parent is like running a prison. So, you know, where is the court? Where the expectations align in terms of what message you're giving one child is talking to mom all the time because they're the one that's going to say this is. I'll flip it because I don't want to be stereotypical. So dad is going to say yes all the time to the daughter. And I'm going to take my checkbook out, credit cards, whatever you need. I got you. And mom was like, why did you do that again? I told her no. And so. As much as you can understanding what those differences in values and expectations in your marriage is important. So that way. You have a higher likelihood of being successful. But if you don't go into the marriage, like it's amazing. Like we go through planning financially and all these things, but I love this other person. So we're just going to get married and we don't do any planning for it. So having the same level of planning that you would do for anything else and more than that, I think, is key.

Jackie - 01:19:40:

Absolutely. Last question of the night, gentlemen. What's the thing that you'd like to tell your wife after this conversation?

Bob - 01:19:55:

Well, I would say, as I do all things. My love, I had a wonderful time talking about you tonight and how much I love you. Because I really do feel... I got lucky on my second go. I hit the lottery. I found the perfect person for me. And I look at her and every single time I look at Suzette, I feel like... It's the first time I ever saw her all over again. It's, my heart sings. And so... I mean, it's. It's beyond my belief as a thinking, rational person that I could be so deeply in love with this one person. And I want her to know that. And I want her to know that if I live for one more year, one more day, a thousand more years, that you meant something to me. And this conversation has actually deepened my love for her even more.

Jackie - 01:20:58:

Well, Bob, we are now still at 100% on one of us crying in every episode. I did not. Geez. I thought I was going to make it, but no, we are still at a... Wow.

Grant - 01:21:13:

Good for you, man.

Jackie - 01:21:17:

Who's next? Goodness.

Don - 01:21:23:

I tell Jackie this all the time and I'll tell her after this. Everything's better when you're involved. And that's our business. That's our life. That's our future. And once I fully internalize that. Than any of the small things around the edges. Right? Became even smaller. And so what I tell my wife after this conversation, who happens to be here and moderating, leading the dialogue, is just like pulling this together. Whether it gets a million downloads or 50 or 5,000, this conversation is going to open some doors and minds of people. And so people are better because Jackie's involved. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart. And it's super exciting to kind of see her movie develop. As a wife, as a mother, as a leader, and all those things kind of combined into somebody that I adore. And For somebody that was... Not sour on love. I was actively in pursuit of anything against love or a new relationship. And whatever you think that means, that's what I was doing after I got divorced. And she, um, gave me a different perspective on all things love and continues to do it.

Kurt - 01:22:51:

Yeah, I mean, I'm... And really reflective. Kind of mindset just based on all the things that we've talked about. And I don't know what I did. To deserve to be without. I just marvel at who she is. I'm Marvel Luke. The lives that she's touched when she walks in the room, the way that she talks to people, the way that she's raised our family. I'm humbled that I have the opportunity to love her at all. And I know that I wouldn't be who I am or achieve some of the things that I've achieved without her being there. I just can't imagine life. Without her by my side. I want to continue to earn my right. To call myself her husband. Because I know that. We joke a lot. Like tomorrow she could look over and say, you know what? No. I'm finished. It was a good run though. And so, uh, That's the mindset. Like you, you, you, in sports, you hear people talking about, I, I want to play. I'm a, you know, I'm an MVP, but I'm playing like, I'm not going to make the team. And so I want to continue to play like I'm not going to make the team. But again, just fortunate, blessed to call her my wife. There have been many days where I just don't believe, I can't believe I had that opportunity. So that's what I would tell her.

Grant - 01:24:47:

Wow. I mean, I am not nearly as smart as Kurt. I'm not as poetic as Bob. Not a rock star like the Thompsons. I asked Laura to marry me when I was in my 20s. I, I didn't know what I was doing. I was lucky. Luckiest guy. I believe I'm the luckiest guy. But here I am. I think I've got some wisdom now. A little bit, just a little bit. And I would. I would say, Laura, I'd like to marry you again. Right now. So. I mean, I'm just the luckiest guy in the world.

Grant - 01:25:33:

That's awesome.

Jackie - 01:25:34:

Y'all have to know, wrap this up, and my eyes are burning, and I'm a little nasally. But one, I want to say. Thank you all so much. You know, this has been a long episode, but I think it's been one. That is a master class in relationships. And I just want to reiterate. Just how much I respect you all and admire you as individuals, as professionals. I'm so glad to. Know you and be in your lives and be able to witness or participate in these amazing relationships. Thank you all for spending some time with me this evening. Again, I think it's going to really... Shed some light for a lot of people on what they should be doing, what they should be expecting. And hopefully we'll get some good perspectives for people that are in search of the love that you all have. So thank you so much for being with me tonight.

Don - 01:26:45:

Thank you for having me thanks Jackie for bringing us all together.

Jackie - 01:26:53:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. If you enjoy the podcast, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become a part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, and TikTok. This show is proudly part of the Living Corporate Network and was edited and produced by AirFluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.