Fearless and Boundless Leaps: Karen Baker’s Marketing Impact

00:00:00 Jackie Ferguson 

Thanks for joining us for this episode of Diversity Beyond the Checkbox. Today, I am talking to Karen Baker, marketing and communication professional and President of Boathouse Group. 

Karen, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. 

00:00:15 Karen Baker 

I'm excited to be here. Thank you for having me, Jackie. 

00:00:18 Jackie Ferguson 

Of course, I'm excited to have you. Karen, you've had an interesting professional journey to your current role. Will you tell us a little bit about some of those experiences leading up to Boathouse? 

00:00:31 Karen Baker 

You know, it's so funny. I was writing something the other day, and it was talk. Asked me the question around your journey, you know, and I had to think back, you know, because there's certain things that drop off your resume after a certain amount of time you know, and this particular position had dropped off my resume because it was the first position, professional position I had coming out of Howard University. And it was with an organization that was focused on housing, economic development, community development and that was my first introduction to coming into the workplace was around this thing of equity.  

We were lobbying. We were having events pulling together federal and state organizations, and it was interesting because it just a couple days ago it really made me understand the impact that it has led on my career, you know, by being in that organization, all women were in the organization. They were all lobbying. They fought so extremely hard, you know, I was with them for two years at 21, 22 years old. They made a huge impression on my career. And so, when I was thinking about, OK, diversity and inclusion and, you know, social impact and social justice. 

You know, my family history does that, but here's my first position at 22 years old and I land in this type of work, you know, and so that journey has continued to show up even through marketing and communications. I really have chosen companies as clients prior to coming to Boathouse that were understood, you know, had a conscious awareness of their work, wanted to impact community, understood that there were disparities going on within communities as well. 

So that journey has been continuous since 22 years old, you know? So, your question is very timely from around a couple of days ago to get the Boathouse and be able to lead a social impact practice. 

00:02:27 Jackie Ferguson 

I love that. I love that. Karen, can you get into some of the cool companies that you've had the opportunity to work with? 

I want to talk to you about, you know, taking on these big roles at such a young age and not being afraid to move from this point to that point. So if you'll talk to us a little about some of the the cool organizations that you've been able to partner with over the years. 

00:02:53 Karen Baker 

Yeah, my first out the box was BET - Black Entertainment television. They laid the ground for me. You know, people that I still am in touch with today. I mean, I was saying to someone, I was in Miami a couple weeks ago, being able to be in a room and Wu Tang Clan is there and, you know, Mariah Carey and Black Eyed Peas and get exposed to those people so young, you know, and have a level of authority, you know, and the work that she was doing was forever grateful in that. 

You know, and then you know, having clients that you work with like minority business Development Agency, which is federal, but you're still looking at export and import and how we need to increase the amount of founders of color coming in to import and export, you know, and then work it on something with Puma, you know, Red Bull and, you know, it has ran the gamut, you know, uh, very exciting, uh clients to work on. So, I really appreciate the cool clients, you know, really talk about them as well. You know? So, it has been a very interesting career. I think at some point I'll write a book, Jackie. 

00:03:58 Jackie Ferguson 

I love that. Karen, you should. You definitely should and I want to see is on the word clients because you didn't go work for these companies. You started your own company and they were clients. So tell us about the courage that it takes to, I mean so many of us at 30, 40, 50 still, you know, we want to start that business. We want to step out and do something different, but we don't have the courage to do it. Tell me a little about how you made that decision so young to start your own thing and then gain these clients that have, you know, worldwide brand and appeal, tell me how, how that came about. 

00:04:44 Karen Baker 

You know, it's such a good question and a great reflection for myself because I was 24 years old when I started my company and I was the only I didn't have any mentors, any advisors. They came along the way. But to start it, I didn't have any. And so you know I wonder too what was in me, I just think determination. You know that I was, I knew I wanted to own my own business. I was very clear on that and left the first job I told you about to do that, to start my own and stumbled. Fell like people say I fell up because I fell down and got right back up. You know, and really understanding what it meant to own a business, the financials of it, you know, hiring contractors, going after clients that were very big companies that, like you said, are very known and them saying we can give you a chance, right? You know, we're gonna give you the opportunity to actually come in here, consult for us, lead major projects, you know, and build your business and you know, maybe it's part of just being the first, you know, and people looking at that like, wow, here's a 24 year old coming and knocking on my door, you know, saying I can do this, you know, and give me the opportunity to do this. So, I think that was that was also helpful to have people that believed that you were capable. 

00:06:04 Jackie Ferguson 

That's so amazing, Karen. Tell us a little about where that courage comes from to move from one big thing to the next big thing. And again, you know, so many of us want to make that leap, but we can't summon the courage or we're thinking about what could go wrong. Tell me where that courage comes from ,Karen. 

00:06:28 Karen Baker 

You know, I think you know, I give a lot of credit to my dad because he was never one, he said. Do what you want to do. You know, and you can do what you want to do. You know, we never heard him particularly to myself. Say, I don't know if you could do that. There was never doubt that came from him. You know, when I started something or began anything, he would just listen. 

You know, but he instilled in us consistently, like you could do whatever you want to do, you know, because he told me. He said if I was young at the time I grew up and someone said that to me, he said, I think I would have been a different person, so it made me a different person. You know, as a result of that, and I come from a background of civil rights leaders, you know, who, as anyone knows, even now in this day and age that you got to have the wherewithal to push past, you know, you got to have the wherewithal to sometimes not listen to what is being said and know that it's right, you know, and move forward that.  

And so I think you know, people say group credit to your ancestors is my dad is now an ancestor, I said I give credit to that being put in me very young, I'm on very young, you know, and it just stayed with me, you know. And so sometimes you move not even realizing yeah, that you're moving differently from other people, you know. And so really that young, I was moving differently from other people. 

00:07:48 Jackie Ferguson 

I love it. You know, it's so important to remember that we as parents, as aunts, uncles, grandparents, family friends can really sew into the young people in our lives and really change their outlook and combat that. You know, societal impression of what they can and can't accomplish and when they can and can't accomplish that, and I think that's amazing that your father did that. 

He also, from what I gathered from our first conversation, Karen, registered a lot of black voters during civil rights. Can you tell me a little about that? 

00:08:31 Karen Baker 

Yeah, that was my, my grandfather lived to be 102. Yes, he passed December of 2023 and by the time he was 101, he had registered 50,000 people to vote. And I'm talking about 50,000 African Americans to vote. That's the level of determination. 

I don't know that a lot of people have, he was just big on the fact that we were deserving of the same privileges and we should be taking advantage of the same privileges that were there. I think I share with you when I attended his funeral, my aunt gave me a picture of him with run DMC and, because he was registering people at their concerts in the 80s, you know, he was like, meet people where they are.  

He would go sit in the parks and meet people in the parks to register them to vote. You know, so really when people talking about you really want to impact the community, you have to go where that community is. That was a lesson we watched him consistently repeat over and over again to 102, you know to 102 years old. it's like you gotta show up, you know. And when you show up, you gotta be ready to, to encourage people to, to make them understand the importance of the work and why they should be engaged in the work. 

00:09:46 Jackie Ferguson 

I love that, so that bold audacity is generations back Karen. 

00:09:49 

Yeah. 

00:09:52 

Yes. 

00:09:53 Jackie Ferguson 

Love it. I love it. 

Karen, what advice do you give to those that are afraid to make that big leap or think they need to have a clear laid out path for their future? Or they're nervous? Tell me what advice you have for them. 

00:10:11 Karen Baker 

You know it it's a very simple word to say, but maybe not to do and that's just start, right. You have to start even if it's the evenings that you take from your job to write a little bit about your goal and your vision right. And then figure out the people that need to be surrounded to make that happen, then you say, well, I'm just going to show up at this thing, you know, and network a little bit and start to get myself out there.  

You do have to start because I have known people who have had business ideas in their head forever and they never get out, you know? And it's always about I need money. I need more money to make it happen. You know, as soon as I get enough money and that will that can never be the answer. You know, it can be your problem sometimes, but that doesn't mean you don't start, though. That means that doesn't mean you don't start and the thing is, I think a lot of people, Jackie, are scared that they'll fail at it. You know that I'll get this business going and it won't do. Well, it is the best thing that could ever happen to you is for a business to fail. 

Right. And then you pick it back up and you start it again from the failures that you already know, right? That is the best thing that can happen to you. But I think that's the greatest fear. I'm gonna start and it's gonna fail. So, I know it's already going to fail. So, I'm not going to start it. 

00:11:36 Jackie Ferguson 

Yeah, that's exactly right. I love that. Just start because you're right, you know, it may not work exactly the way you want, but the lessons that you learn along the way will help you refine it and give you opportunity to go. Again, I think that's absolutely. 

00:11:51 Karen Baker 

Yeah, it's called risk. 

00:11:56 Jackie Ferguson 

Karen, tell us a little more about Boathouse and what that organization does. 

00:12:02 Karen Baker 

So Boathouse is now about finishing up its 22nd year of being in Business 2 Co founders who were rowers at Penn State together, you know, during their career in and out and decided to start a company together and they were also, you know, at a fed-up point like what we're seeing where we are and how people are being treated. We don't want a business like this. We don't want to be part of a business. 

So, the foundation of Boathouse is built on team. It's built on supporting the people that are there for you, you know and and driving a level of change internally and externally you know so we came in you know as a traditional marketing advertising company I would say and over my time there we've had added three more pillars to our services and there was really things that they were doing but really needed to label it, you know, needed to make it a service needed to make it a revenue stream.  

And so, as a result, we added those three or five services now and we really are looking at the fact has Boathouse been and should it continue to build itself as an advocacy based business model because it gives back so much. 

00:13:11 Jackie Ferguson 

Yeah, I love that. You know, and it's so important for founders of an organization or principles within an organization to understand the balance between that give back and you know their business model, right? And it's so important to combine the two not only for your brand but for the employees that you have and the ones that you want to recruit. So that's amazing.  

Marketing has gone through quite an evolution over the past 25 years, from marketing to a specific majority group to developing multicultural marketing strategies to understanding inclusive marketing. What do businesses need to know about marketing to customers in 2024? 

00:14:01 Karen Baker 

You know, it's interesting having conversations because I'm always pitching in business. You know, I've talking to not only to Chief of Staff, CMO’s chief of DEI you know and very large companies. I'm having conversations with, some are saying a mistake that was made before was segmenting different cultures and that they need to get back to integrating, marketing and understanding really what multicultural marketing means.  

So, I think that's what's coming in 2024 is the understanding that don't segment out Latin, African American, Asian Pacific Islander and higher firms to only do that, you know, can you hire firms that understand the gamut of all of them now what it's going to require is our marketing firms to show up that do understand all that are actually going to hire people within the organizations that sit within these segments because no one is saying all cultures are the same and we need to group them all together. That's not what's being said is that the understanding of marketing to more than just only that particular community has not necessarily done them well by doing that.  

So, I think that is what the shift is that's going to come. And I think that that's going to really help us make more impact, particularly since we know a lot of those communities are connected, right? They have some level of connection and how tradition, these rituals, their needs, you know, particularly in this political climate are going to be met. So, I think that's what's going to start to shift. 

00:15:42 Jackie Ferguson 

Absolutely, and it's there's so much to think about. You're thinking about needs, habits, years, goals, right and those all can be different based on that particular group, but as society becomes more and more diverse, marketing and marketing professionals need to understand that diversity and be able to integrate that into those campaigns. 

00:16:02 Karen Baker 

Correct. Yeah, I can't wait until people start using the term too. 

Majority people are hesitant in using that and that it's not, it's not new, but you know you keep hearing still minority population, right, but with the diversity that we have almost communities, there is a new majority and so let's see when the new majority starts to be used as a term particularly after this. 

00:16:36 Jackie Ferguson 

Electric. Absolutely. That's so true. That's so true. 

Karen, what advice would you give for young marketing professionals coming out of college about what to focus on as they embark upon their careers? 

00:16:50 Karen Baker 

That's a great question, because what I'm seeing and I and other day I got so frustrated with someone young, I'm like you got a network. 

You cannot. You can't be in marketing and sit behind a computer. You have to network, so I really advise them to network and in turn you know it's not paid or unpaid? You know everybody wants to be paid, but at the end of the day, if someone is willing to train you and give you the expertise that they've acquired over 30-40 years. You better take that opportunity to get to know that because marketing keeps changing, it always changes.  

There's certain things that remain the same, right. There's certain things that remain and certain tools in your tool belt doesn't matter what generation you talk to, they're still using those particular tools. So really network. Make sure you get the training while you're in college because you're getting theory in school, right? Right. You're not getting that in in the workplace so that you could come in pushing yourself ahead. Otherwise you're, you know, you're not gonna know you're going to stumble trying to apply because you won't have any application. 

00:17:57 Jackie Ferguson 

Absolutely. You know, and the thing is and when you talked about someone that's training you and having those mentors, that's so invaluable to people. And as they're beginning their careers because you're right, you have the theory, but you don't know where to go. You don't know how that's applied. You don't know the nuance of how to write for marketing outside of that class, right. And how to AB test and all of the things that matter when you're a marketing professional, you know, trying to move up. And I think that's such great advice. 

Karen, talk to us about Social Arts and Culture. You're the founder of that. Tell us a little about what that organization does. 

00:18:43 Karen Baker 

Yeah, that's my baby too. So, I founded Social Art and Culture 14 years ago because I saw a gap in the community for artists who wanted to be socially responsible and make social change. So where do you go as an artist when your work is dedicated to social injustice, economic injustice, homelessness? Where do you go to ensure that you have a community around you? So, we build social art and culture to fill that gap. We built it to be a collective collaborative organization, so we join with other organizations and to ensure to amplify a message is what we do. We usually don't do things singular as an organization and that was, is at that time not a model more people are looking at.  

How can they collectively come together, what we call a joint issue promotion when you have a corporate, how do you push an issue as organizations for organizations to amplify more and not get in this place of competitiveness because you know an issue you can't compete on a social issue. So, get in the place of competitiveness because of funding. So, we started in our, you know, social, art and culture with that premise in the beginning that we would not compete against any organization. We were there to push the social issue. 

00:20:01 Jackie Ferguson 

Love it. I love it. And let's go back Karen to the marketing piece. Certainly, we have all seen some of the marketing missteps over the decades and ways that organizations have gotten it very, very wrong. Tell us, what do we need in the room, as we're creating these campaigns to ensure that our messages are resonating the way we want them to with the people that are listening? 

00:20:33 Karen Baker 

Yeah, I spoke at something a couple weeks ago and I used Shirley Chisholm's quote about the fact that if they don't, you know, there's no chair at your at the table, you bring your own folding chair. We need to be at the table, you know, when the conversation is had from idea, not when it's in execution, right?  

You need an idea. You need to look around that room and say who's representing what we're about to do. If no one in that room is represented. But you're gonna make the decisions anyway. There's problem #1 and it will end up being a problem all the way throughout the process, right? So, don't make it so people have to keep creating their own tables, you know, make it so that you include them in the table in the conversation and use their ideas you know, use what they're saying. Don't like, tell people don't give people PTSD by having them be the first in that room, and then you turn around and it's such a nightmare. You know, when they come out of it, be prepared to receive people at that table, in addition to welcoming them to that table, but we need diversity at that table. 

00:21:38 Jackie Ferguson 

Absolutely. And you know, Karen, one of the things that I hear from a lot of marketing agency leaders is well, right now we don't have a lot of diversity, but you can get that diversity in your network, right. Sometimes it's important to bring people in, correct, as you're trying to recruit and be a more, you know, multicultural, multi dimensional agency it's important to bring those people in from outside the organization to really review the work that you're doing. So many organizations who work in a silo and then when they make a mistake, now they're looking for us right to come in and fix it exactly right. 

And it's so much easier and better for your brand to have them at the table with a voice, right? Because the other concern is they're at the table, but they don't really have a voice that's heard. 

00:22:40 Karen Baker 

Correct, correct. 

00:22:42 Jackie Ferguson 

Right. But they think it's a, you know, checking the box to have them there at the table, but you're not, as you said, taking that advice for the use of those campaigns. It's so important to really think about what they're saying, what their suggestions are, their ideas and recommendations. 

00:23:03 Karen Baker 

Yeah. And that external person like you said, is important. I mean, we, we made a three-year commitment to someone who was a DEI consultant for us, and currently we've been working on the danger of a single story, which gets at what you're talking about as well. Because I think within companies, you can also have the danger of a single story, right. It's just not the people that work for you. 

That brand can have the danger of a single story, and so as a result, then you create campaigns and initiatives around your own understanding versus having that second person, third person, whatever say. You don't need to think about that. Let's check that because that message may do this. You know, an unconscious bias is not people talk to people. Check all the time, you know, and the work that they do. So, you need that, that ear, you know. And I think CEO's are responsible for that. They have to pay attention to that. 

00:23:56 Jackie Ferguson 

That's exactly right. 

And you know, I love that you're talking about DE I in the marketing from a marketing lens because a lot of times organizations think that DI sits in HR, correct and it's siloed there, but diversity, equity and inclusion needs to penetrate all aspects of an organization. 

00:24:20 Karen Baker 

Correct. 

00:24:20 Jackie Ferguson 

And marketing is the piece that's so outward facing, correct that that is one of the most important places that that it be included. And so, I think what you're saying there is so important. 

00:24:33 Karen Baker 

Yeah. It's very interesting too, because I think people forget that. 

You know, diversity also is imagery, right? It's the imagery is what you're saying. It's so impactful. Marketing is just an amazing tool and it is so powerful. I think some people don't understand how powerful it is, Jackie, that it can make you speak differently because a word could be put out and people use it. And then as a marketer, I always go. Where did that come from? And no one knows because marketing has put that word out there and people have attached to it and don't even know why they're using it. 

And that is extremely important and diversity equity inclusion that we even look at language that goes out into campaigns and initiatives and what it can do to the end user as well. 

00:25:26 Jackie Ferguson 

Absolutely. I love that that's such good advice. 

Karen, what is the message that you want to leave our listeners with today? 

00:25:35 Karen Baker 

Oh goodness, that's a, I think, if you are in this work and marketing and communication, if you have not paused to think about the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion in your work, please pause, pause, and think about the work, because whether you fully understand what social impact is and social impact isn't easy. 

You know, it takes time. Once you start to pause, to understand what diversity equity inclusion means, because a lot of people go, oh, you're just talking about race. Not true. That's not the only layer of diversity, equity and inclusion. 

If you pause to understand what it means, you'll understand how it needs to impact the work that you deliver out into the public. So I really I charge people to pause and be able to reflect on how that impacts marketing and communications because it absolutely does. 

00:26:33 Jackie Ferguson 

Absolutely, Karen. That's so true. And if you think about the buying power of these diverse groups, whether you're thinking about women or you're thinking about Black People or you're thinking about LGBTQ+ or people with disabilities. The buying power is so significant that they cannot be ignored. 

And how can listeners learn more about your work and connect with you? 

00:27:13 Karen Baker 

You can definitely learn more about the work at boathouseinc.com. A lot of the stuff is we're actually updating our website, which is launches next week. 

So yeah, to really be reflective of the conversation we're talking about now as well, and then you can also look at social art and culture that info as well, always e-mail me, hit me on LinkedIn. I always respond to people. I'm a believer not leaving people hanging in response. You know. So, communication is important to me. So please do reach out. 

00:27:44 Jackie Ferguson 

And Karen, one fun question because I'm interested, can you tell us a story you've interacted and worked with so many amazing people. Can you tell us one of your favorite stories about a celebrity or well-known person that you've interacted with over the years? 

00:27:48 Karen Baker 

1. That's a good one, cause I was telling many stories in Miami. 

This one is very special to me because I was such a fan of her and it was Tina Marie and I got a chance to meet her when I was at BET and just such a warm person #1. 

And I was taking her back. Her daughter was with her, and we're taking her back. And she turned to me and she said, you are so beautiful. 

I was like I am going to take that, love it. And she just kept talking and we had a very great conversation and the very next year she passed. 

Yeah. So, it was just meeting someone as a fan and then the genuineness of their personality comes across from what you hope it's going to be, and it ends up being that it was that that really is stands out in my head for a very memorable moment. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

00:28:59 Jackie Ferguson 

I love it. I love it. Karen, thank you so much for being here. This has been a great conversation. 

00:29:02 Karen Baker 

Well, this has been awesome. 

Thank you so much, Jack. I appreciate it. Thank you. 

00:29:10 Jackie Ferguson 

All right, we're going to jump into some bonus stuff. OK let's jump in. 

Karen, who is your childhood celebrity crush? 

00:29:42 Karen Baker 

Ohh that's a good one. It was Michael Jackson. Yeah. 

00:29:46 Jackie Ferguson 

Ohh yeah, I get it, I get it. 

I was just watching a documentary on Michael Jackson. It just, you know, you realize what a genius he was, but. 

I mean, oh gosh. 

00:29:59 Karen Baker 

And the documentary probably was the one about the we are the world song or better, what they did. Yeah. And I have never seen Michael Jackson talk that. 

00:30:02 Jackie Ferguson 

Uh-huh. Uh, huh. 

00:30:07 Karen Baker 

And he just was a talking and talking. I was like this is good to see him. You're not absurd. And who he is? They really captured who he is. And they gave me an even more appreciation for him, right. Yeah. Yeah. 

00:30:19 Jackie Ferguson 

Absolutely. That also was the concert that, you know, when you think about who you wanted to see. 

In concert I never made that important and I regret it. 

00:30:29 Karen Baker 

Oh, wow. Yes. Oh my God. I saw him with his brothers. I saw him so low. The first concert I ever went to was Jackson 5. 

00:30:33 Jackie Ferguson 

Ohh, amazing. 

Oh wow, I love that. 

And what is your guilty pleasure? 

00:30:43 Karen Baker 

Ohh my gosh. Ohh. 

It's lately it has been sweet. OK? And I was never a sweet person. I'm a salty person, but lately it has been like I like banana nut bread. That is my thing. That is my thing. So if I'm if somebody got it, I'm gonna try it. 

00:31:05 Jackie Ferguson 

Love it. 

Karen, what's the worst piece of advice you've ever gotten? 

00:31:11 Karen Baker 

Oh. Got it. Oh, go get a job. 

Yeah, that was the worst. And I heard that many times in the very beginning.  

00:31:24 Jackie Ferguson 

Who would you like to be stranded on a desert island with? 

00:31:31 Karen Baker 

Michael B Jordan. 

That's like that is what I do with my. I'm like this brother does amazing and he's smart and business and everything. I'm like, wow, we could have grown up. Now you dumb too. 

00:31:39 Jackie Ferguson 

I think a lot of people would agree. 

I love it. I love it. Karen, what is something most people don't know about? 

00:32:01 Karen Baker 

Oh, most people don't know, and I'm only slowly starting to tell this, but this is this is a great show to say it on so you get good ones then that that I'm a Weaver, that I weave. Yeah. Yeah. I happen 10 years actually. 

00:32:14 Jackie Ferguson 

So interesting. And how did you get into that? 

00:32:19 Karen Baker 

I got a chance to interview a master Ghanaian. And when he brought his work in, I was just blown away by just the impeccable nature of the process and the delivery of what you see. And then he gave me this historical content of how in Ghana they would use the patterns within the weaving for, you know. Escaping from slavery. And so, I was like, oh, I have to learn this craft. So that's what set me on it. 

00:32:50 Jackie Ferguson 

Is amazing. Karen, what's one thing you can't live without? 

00:32:56 Karen Baker 

Ohh wow, my son, he is everything to me. Yeah, I call him my superhero. 

00:33:01 Jackie Ferguson 

I love that. 

00:33:04 Jackie Ferguson 

Amazing. OK, Karen, we're gonna do a part called Thems fighting words. Are you ready? 

00:33:10 Karen Baker 

Ohh, OK, go ahead. 

00:33:13 

This is good stuff. This is fun. 

00:33:15 Jackie Ferguson 

Do you roll toilet paper over or under? 

00:33:19 Karen Baker 

Ohh over. 

00:33:21 Jackie Ferguson 

Me too. 

00:33:24 Jackie Ferguson 

Creamy or crunchy peanut butter. 

00:33:27 Karen Baker 

Creamy OK. 

00:33:29 Jackie Ferguson 

Coke or Pepsi? 

00:33:31 Karen Baker 

Ohh coke. 

00:33:33 Jackie Ferguson 

Does ketchup go in the fridge or the pantry? 

00:33:37 Karen Baker 

Oh, that's a good question. It's been in the pantry. It's been in the pantry, yeah. 

00:33:41 Jackie Ferguson 

OK, OK. Pulp or no pulp in your orange juice. 

00:33:46 Karen Baker 

Oh no, pulp 

00:33:48 Jackie Ferguson 

And pineapple pizza or good pizza? 

00:33:52 

Ohh.Oh my goodness, that's a stumper. 

Let's say good pizza. OK, let's say good pizza, yeah. 

00:34:00 Jackie Ferguson 

1. All right. Karen, this is so fun. Thank you so much. 

00:34:05 

Thank you. 

00:34:06 Karen Baker 

So glad you do this. Oh my God, it's necessary and needed really, so you know, continued success to you continued success, yeah. 

00:34:08 Jackie Ferguson 

Ohh thank you. I appreciate your being on the show and sharing so many amazing things that we needed to hear, especially those of us in the marketing profession. 

00:34:23 Karen Baker 

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So, hope it helps somebody. That's all I want to do, help people. 

00:34:28 Jackie Ferguson 

Thank you so much, Karen. 

00:34:29 Karen Baker 

Yeah, I'll see you soon.

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity Beyond the Checkbox. If you loved this show, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, YouTube, and TikTok. Or subscribe to our newsletter at beyondthecheckbox.com. This show is part of the Living Corporate Network, sponsored by the the Diversity Movement, and edited and produced by EarFluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.