Navigating DEI Challenges in Ad Tech: Insights from Sara Axelbaum, MiQ’s Global DEI Leader

Jackie - 00:00:10:

And you're listening to the Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox podcast brought to you by the Diversity Movement. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, author, speaker, and human rights advocate. On this show, I'm talking to trailblazers, game changers and glass ceiling breakers who share their inspiring stories and insights on business, inclusion and personal development. Thank you for downloading this episode. I am truly grateful for you. Enjoy the show. Thanks for tuning into the Diversity Beyond the Checkbox podcast. I'm so glad that you all are here. My guest today is Sarah Axelbaum, affectionately known as Axel. Axel is the global head of diversity, equity, and inclusion for MIQ. A programmatic media partner for marketers and agencies. Axel, thank you so much for joining us.

Sara - 00:01:09:

Thank you so much for having me. This is such an honor to be here.

Jackie - 00:01:12:

Oh, I'm so glad to get into this conversation with you. First, will you tell us a little more about MIQ and share more about your role specifically?

Sara - 00:01:22:

Absolutely. So as you said, we are a programmatic media partner. So that means we're in the advertising technology space. We work with clients to make sure that the advertising that they place reaches the right audience at the right time. We have the goals in mind and we optimize towards that. And I spent over 15 years of my career working in the media and ad tech space, but on the business side, before I moved over to a DEI role. And that was the first week of March 2020. And I do have the honor of globally leading us in all of our efforts for diversity, equity and inclusion. And it's really nice to be able to lead inclusion in a sector that I grew up in because it's something I know and love and feel good giving back to.

Jackie - 00:02:05:

That's so fantastic. Now you say that you started with MIQ in March of 2020. Wow, right? Wow. COVID, then you've got George Floyd's murder and the spotlight on racial inequities coming in that summertime. What was that like for you?

Sara - 00:02:25:

You know, it was, it was hard. You know, I was starting at a new company in a role that was new to the company in March. In a full-time career that was new to me, and I had one normal week before the world shut down, and that was really humbling. I had been working in the DEI space for a long time, but off the side of my desk, and I learned a lot of best practices, which when you're talking about inclusion and belonging, was very focused around bringing people physically together. And I had to rewire my entire way of working and everything that I knew to be a best practice to figure out how to best serve the people of MIQ during what was a really hard and tumultuous time at the company. And then in the world, when we went remote. And then going from there into the reckoning of the aftermath of George Floyd's murder. And I stumbled a lot. I got back up. I stumbled again. I got back up. And it wasn't easy, but I learned a lot and I grew a lot. And I think MIQ learned and grew a lot during that time as well.

Jackie - 00:03:37:

Well, I can't imagine. It's hard enough starting a new job. It's hard enough starting a new job at a company that you're the first one in the world. And then having everything else. Compiling with that. I can only imagine how complicated that was and scary and all of those things. But you have certainly made it through and MIQ has really doubled down on their DEI initiatives. Which is reflected in the 2023 Inclusion, Diversity, Equity, and Accountability Report. I love the acronym idea. Can you share some of the findings of that report?

Sara - 00:04:19:

Absolutely. So when I first came to this company, I challenged, I guess, the founder and the CEO to say, I'm going to convince you to release externally a diversity report. And he was like, absolutely no problem. And that was all the convincing it took, which was shocking to me. But he made good on that promise. We released the report, the first one three years ago. And in that report, we actually saw that things were going okay. So there were room for improvements. But I think one of the biggest realizations we had from there was that we were actually paying our women in the bottom half of their salary bands. We were more likely to pay our women in the bottom half of their salary bands. And That was a revelation to all of us and something that we didn't want to continue, obviously. Sure. So we put a lot of focused effort towards what do we do about that? How do we educate our decision makers about what can lead to these kinds of inequities because we figured if we educated them about the fact that this happens pretty naturally by the very course of how we're doing and we don't place the blame on anyone for doing anything wrong, we just tell them how this happens societally, then we would see change. And we did. So in year two, which was last year, we saw that that pattern no longer existed. We look for that pattern in all of our different identity metrics. But we were able to neutralize it for every single one that we looked at. And then this report that we just released said that that is continuing, which is incredible. And we're really proud of that because that was something that we put a lot of focus into. And then on top of that, we also saw really great steady progress around how we were doing in terms of our representation, our hiring, our retention when it came to people from historically marginalized backgrounds. And we especially saw a growth at the leadership level for women and our employees of color, which were some of our biggest goals. So it's really great to see that come out in the data. And then the one other thing we really did in this report is we wanted to shine a spotlight on the individuals at MIQ who were making this possible. So their work was so inspiring and we wanted to showcase that to everyone, to our employees and to everyone outside, because it takes every single person at an organization to make it more inclusive. And we were really excited to see that come through in the data and be able to talk about that widely.

Jackie - 00:07:05:

That's so fantastic. Now Axel, what do you say to leaders that say, we're doing fine, we don't need to publish anything, right? It's because it can be scary for leaders. You know, have a viewpoint of, of what the sentiment is in our company and how we're doing as an organization. But that's not necessarily reflected by our employees. How do you talk to someone who's not on board the way MIQ was? But to say, look, we need to do this. What's the conversation that you would have there?

Sara - 00:07:41:

I think that the accountability piece is so crucial because how do you know if there is or isn't a problem if you've never been introspective and asked, you've never asked your data, you've never asked your people, there's no way to say, oh, we're doing fine if you don't have the data to back it up. You know, you need to keep the receipts. And I think that I've seen that what gets measured gets done philosophy has applied to every part of my career, but even more so in the DEI space. DEI data is becoming harder and harder to track. There are people who are reticent to disclose and to self-identify, but it's really hard to know if, for example, we have a gender pay gap if we don't know who is a woman, who is a man, who is non-binary. So we need that information to be able to do that study. And I would say if you asked any manager at MIT prior to that report, do we pay women in the bottom half of their salary band? They would say, absolutely not. We're so fair. We're so equitable. We make decisions made with meritocracy. That is how we make decisions. There's no way that we have an imbalance. But the data revealed it so clearly. And all we need to do is say, hey, look at the data. And it was undeniable. So I think that there is that absolute need for accountability to make sure that we are doing what we say we're doing and to keep ourselves on track to know what's working and what isn't.

Jackie - 00:09:09:

Absolutely. Now, Axel, tell me how accountability is so important. Other than transparency, what are some other ways that we can create and sustain accountability in our organizations?

Sara - 00:09:23:

Yeah, I think the data as I mentioned is where to start, but I don't think it can end with the data. I think there's so much. Information out there if you're willing to ask for it. And I think that one way that we really look at accountability is we set expectations for how our people should act and show up, and we are consistently asking our people, what are you personally doing to make this company more inclusive today? And we tell our managers, ask your direct reports that question because every time you ask that question, it accelerates our work, it keeps us accountable, and it makes people realize that that's what we value because when we're looking at it, every single person who takes intentional action makes MIQ the place we all wanna work. So by keeping that question just part of how we operate helps people really internalize the fact that it takes deliberate and intentional action to be inclusive.

Jackie - 00:10:25:

Absolutely. Now, when I have seen this idea acronym that A usually stands for accessibility, what is an organization's responsibility to be an accessible workplace?

Sara - 00:10:39:

I think that is such an important question. In my mind, it is absolutely impossible to be diverse, equitable, or inclusive without being accessible because In my mind, that's table stakes. It's so essential that everyone has what they need to work at their fullest potential. And we know that about a third of the workplace has some form of disability, and that doesn't even include people who have temporary disabilities or temporary needs. So a broken ankle or even a childcare shortage can totally upend good work. And it's a simple fix where workplaces just really need to be agile enough to make accommodations that benefit everyone. And that's how you future-proof a business. When you make signage clearer, it doesn't just make it easier for people with a neurodivergence to navigate. It also makes every single employee able to navigate your floors better and faster. And who doesn't need that? So universal design is so important. And as an example, we want to make sure that people feel welcome from the moment they come to us. So for instance, if someone is coming to interview in a wheelchair, we will move a chair away from the table to make sure that when they come in, they have an immediate seat at the table. And that signals to them that they are included from the get-go and that that's important to us. But we won't know that unless we ask. We have to be able to get that information to know what we need to support people. And that's why having that accommodation and focus on accessibility in my mind is table stakes. It is absolutely crucial.

Jackie - 00:12:15:

Absolutely, and I totally agree. It's table stakes because when you're trying to implement a DEI practice, If you don't have, let me, disability is the part of diversity that any of us can become a part of at any time. Right. And many of us will. Due to illness, age, accident, right? And so that's a good foundational way for an organization to say. Hey, we're prioritizing diversity, equity, and inclusion for real. And that's a visible reminder of that. Um, so I totally agree. Table stakes and. It's, you know, a lot of times the accommodations are so easy and you made such a great example of. Moving a chair away from a table for a wheelchair user. It's something that simple that can say so much about your organization.

Sara - 00:13:12:

Absolutely.

Jackie - 00:13:15:

Tell us about your program Active Allyship bystander intervention in identity-based harassment.

Sara - 00:13:23:

Sure. So I have to give. So much credit to our global DEI director, Seraj Rahim on this. She is one of the foremost experts on bystander intervention, and we're fortunate enough to have her on our team. Um, you know. DEI training has gotten a really bad rep. And I think that it is in some research, been shown to be ineffective or worse, it can sometimes promote the opposite of what we're intending. And I think that really comes down to we didn't know any better, you know, when we were delivering DEI trainings in the beginning, there were no years and years of study and research and money to fund this, to know what it was, you know, it was really a lot of scrappy people trying to piece this and only now that we have research, can we build it to be better. And I think that now that we're looking at it, what we really found is that One of the crucial mistakes I think we made is that if we tell people that they might be biased, that is a really quick way to make people very defensive. And if people are defensive, or they feel like they're on their back foot, they are not learning. And we know that for a fact. So the magic of bicentered intervention in my mind is that we're still building that knowledge about what identity-based harassment is, which most people really don't necessarily know or know that. That it's something that comes up so often. But instead of telling people that they could be the ones causing harm, that they can actually, instead, we can build them up to be the bystander who knows what to do in a situation. So when they witness something, whether that's a micro active exclusion or even a bigger act of discrimination, they know what to do in that moment because every single person has probably witnessed something and thought to themselves, should I intervene here? Is that okay? Like, am I going to insult somebody? Am I going to hurt somebody? Is this a warrant and intervention? But the trainings that Sirajah developed give people real skills and help them determine how and when they should intervene, which I think is really helpful. And we have trained almost all of our employees at MIQ with at least one session, most of them too. And now our partners and our clients are actually asking us to help facilitate trainings for their employees, which is really exciting because as an industry, I think that we are on our way to being a really empowered community who stick up for one another. And that's not the industry that I grew up in. And I want to be a part of that future.

Jackie - 00:16:00:

That's amazing. And I would love that. I was recently having a conversation about You know, when do you approach someone with, hey, what you said was offensive or what you said hurt my feelings or whatever. And that can get really exhausting for people who are underrepresented. You know, you're... Sometimes that's the third or fourth example of that in the day. And having bystander intervention, right, is real allyship. And it's, you know, for you to step in and say, Hey, I think what you said was offensive rather than me having to say it is so amazing and what a culture builder. That you know that the people around you. Are going to step in when they hear something that is wrong, right? I think that's so great.

Sara - 00:16:53:

Having each other's backs is so important. And I think that not only builds the muscle of, you know, of allyship, but also belonging and feeling like we all can be each other's best advocates if we just know how and when.

Jackie - 00:17:07:

Absolutely, absolutely. And we do need that information. We need that education because, we are in that awkward moment sometimes where we don't know what to say or we don't want to. Be additionally offensive, right? We want to step in, but we don't know how to do it or. When to do it or. You know, do we pull someone aside? Do we say it right? And so having that training. Is great because You don't have to think, you already know what to do in that situation, and I think that's a fantastic program. Love that. Axel, why from your perspective is diversity, equity, and inclusion more important than ever? You mentioned, you know, there's a lot happening with the political landscape and it's getting harder. Right, to do this work than it was in 2020. So. What are two or three things that leaders can be thinking about with DEI, and why do we need to really double down, as I said earlier, with your DEI initiatives at MIQ at this point in all our organizations?

Sara - 00:18:16:

I mean, DEI is definitely facing a lot of headwinds right now, politically, culturally. You know, we're trying to put good out into the world and that feels like it's under a lot of pressure. And we feel like we're under a lot of pressure. But our workforce is demanding it more and more every single day. You know, we are very aware of the fact that the composition of Gen Z and of different races and ethnicities is going to completely change in the next decade. But there are still people that are clinging on to the power of being in the majority for the past several decades. And I think that, you know, one thing we need to remind ourselves is that this workforce is going to change whether or not people ban affirmative action, crime-averse racism, subliminally try to steer us back towards these comfortable worlds where the status quo is never challenged. And I think, you know, we look at it as we want to be a company for our present and our future employees, but that is not easy and EdTech ignored this problem for a very long time, so we have a lot of ground to make up. But within ad tech, I think we have a responsibility to invest in how we look at how we put advertising in front of real people with an ethical lens. We have to look at how we deliver ads, who we deliver them to, what those ads contain, because I don't even need to bring up AI is such a factor that we need to figure out and not wait for other people to figure out because there's a chance people can be served false misleading information do an advertisement using AI, or, you know, we could be targeting populations with discriminatory practices and giving them messages that are reinforcing stereotypes. And then in addition, the ad tech industry has this amazing opportunity to funnel more ad dollars into the pockets of those who historically may have been prevented from accessing those dollars. And that's really powerful. So we need to both prevent and take these opportunities to make things better. And we are in a really amazing place to do that. We have solved big hard problems before, you know, we've looked at fraud and privacy. And if we can get through that, like this should be simple, we just all need to make it a goal to do it. And that I think is really key is if we all put our heads together. We can do a lot.

Jackie - 00:20:43:

Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, Axel, with, you know, we talked a little bit about the political landscape and the weaponization of words, right? A lot of companies are losing their resolve, right? In prioritizing DEI, even though what you said is 100% true. We've got to be ready for this next generation. And their expectations are there whether we want to be ready or not. But what advice do you give to leaders, especially DEI leaders and practitioners that are facing these headwinds? And this pushback on DEI and don't know how to respond.

Sara - 00:21:27:

Yeah, I think that when DEI was part of the zeitgeist and everyone was really demanding focused attention to it. Being one company of many who was embarking on the journey, it felt safe. But now, you know, I think that As you mentioned, a lot of companies are backing away now that the pressure isn't on them. And it's left a lot of employees feeling really let down, really disengaged at best. And I think it also really has erased a lot of the small progresses that we were able to get in the last few years. Because as soon as that spotlight got turned off, I think it was very easy to pretend that this problem doesn't exist, or we fixed it, or it's gone, instead of realizing that actually, this is how we got here. And what I say is that companies who decide right now to be courageous, even when it's not the popular thing to do, or it's not comfortable, those are the companies who are going to survive the future. They're going to attract and retain more top-notch people. And especially people who can afford to be selective about where they work, are going to start self-selecting into these companies. It's much harder to embrace DEI right now. I can't deny that at all. But what an opportunity for those companies who don't give up when it gets hard. Look what they can do if they just stick to it.

Jackie - 00:22:51:

And you know, when you, you know, I think about just you starting in March of 2020. And being there. In the summer of 2020 when there was that outcry of what are you? Company, right, gonna do. For us, to support us, what statement are you going to make? And when that comes around again, are you as an organization gonna be ready? Right. Because what happened is MIQ had you already on board. There were so many companies in late summer 2020 that were scrambling. How do we make a statement? How do we address our employees? Right. And so. You've got to continue that momentum because you're right. It does. Impede productivity from your employees that have that expectation and are left disappointed. Absolutely.

Sara - 00:23:40:

Yeah, absolutely.

Jackie - 00:23:42:

Axel, let me ask you this, what about momentum, right? So it's harder, right? There are things that are not as easy, you're getting that push back. How do we sustain momentum and mitigate burnout as DEI practitioners in 2023?

Sara - 00:24:01:

That's a great question. I would say number one, find each other. You know, we are all going through so much of the same stuff right now. And we're all feeling that pushback, especially from scared leaders. Yes. And, you know, there's a lot of pressure from one Supreme Court decision to shut the whole thing down. But I think that in the end, there's a lot of perceived threats. And there are people who don't think our jobs should exist at all. So it is really hard right now. Yeah. But it's so much easier when you can speak to other people who are going through it and you know that you're not alone because. We can learn from each other. And there are barriers that we will all face. And I think I look at DEI as a place where you have to try every single door until you find the one that opens. And if we can learn from each other, which doors have opened, then maybe we can try it at our company and see if we can get there. And if not, at least we have each other to just, you know, realize that we're all in this together and we will get through it. And I think that leads me to the second thing that I would say for momentum is celebrating every single one along the way. You have a project plan that just got approved, celebrate that. Your retention just went up for women this quarter, you should celebrate that. Oh, you had a great speaker coming this week, celebrate that. So be filled out your form, celebrate that. You got through one day where somebody did not question your purpose in the world, raise a glass. You know, it's too, it's too exhausting otherwise. And taking that moment to recognize that you are putting more good into this world every time you show up to your job to do your work. That is the fuel that keeps me going.

Jackie - 00:25:47:

Absolutely. Such great advice. Thank you so much. So speaking of fuel, Axel, what fuels your passion and what has inspired you to achieve success?

Sara - 00:26:01:

Yeah, so professionally, I'd say, as I mentioned that, you know, I grew up in this industry on the business side, and I love and I still love the tech industry. But I also felt like there was so much opportunity to bring more people in. And help them feel like they belong within it. And I'll be honest, throughout my career. I saw some and there were some things that no one should ever stand for. And the response that I got was you need to toughen up your skin. And I. I think throughout my career, I kept looking for somebody who would just help and fix it and make it better. And as I got higher and higher, I kind of realized that with all my success in the advertising world that I could be and I really wanted to be a part of that solution for people that came after me. And I had two kids and I really did some self-reflection and I realized that all that work that I had on volunteering over the years in culture clubs and starting women in tech groups and networking and that could actually be my career. And so I decided to put aside a successful advertising career and follow my heart into DEI full time. And I was fortunate enough to land in a place where that passion was encouraged and wanted. So professionally, that was a lot of fuel. But... On a personal level, I grew up in a house where helping our community and the world around us was just how we operate. My father volunteered at a wild bird rehab. He still to this day drives around New Jersey picking up injured birds and bringing them to be helped. So that was what I grew up with. And then his mom, I spent every single Saturday with my father's parents. And my parents were trying to start a small business and they were laboring to do that in a really tough time. So I spent a lot of time with my grandparents and they are amazing. And my grandmother, you know, she is a Holocaust survivor and she came to the US by way of Cuba when she was just 11 years old. And she was so grateful to everyone who helped transition her life here. And she lived her life in this way that was really focused on paying it forward. And so when I was spending weekends with her, part of our Saturday was going on Meals and Wheels and bringing meals to people who couldn't leave their homes or teaching English to immigrants who were new to the country, just like she was taught when she came here. And I've lived my life inspired by that mindset. And I want to leave this world a little better than how I found it in whatever corner I can personally impact.

Jackie - 00:28:48:

That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that, Axel. What's the message that you want to leave our listeners with today?

Sara - 00:28:58:

So I would say that if you're working in the DEI space right now, I just wanted to remind you that you are not alone and you are not irrational. You might need to find some new creative approaches to get the good work done, but the good work will eventually get done. And I just say hang in there, drink some tea or some wine with the people who remind you that you are doing important work and focus on what you can control because the rest will fade away and what will be left is the work that we are doing.

Jackie - 00:29:28:

Absolutely. Thank you for that. Now, Axel, how can listeners learn more about your work and get in touch with you?

Sara - 00:29:35:

So LinkedIn is probably still the best place, but I do get a lot of spam there now. So I would just say, if you're gonna network with me there, please just add a message that you heard me here and you wanna join me on this journey and maybe not just sell me something preferably. My handle there is Sara Axelbaum, all one word, no H in my first name. So don't find somebody who is not me. Um, and then I do also curate my Instagram feed. Um, and I have decided to explicitly do so in a way that is positive, uplifting and fun, because I get to share my life with my family and friends who. Live far away and I want. The privilege of getting that window into their life and then to have the privilege of getting a window into mine. So I live out loud and I see it as when I am 90 years old, I can't wait to scroll back and relive these beautiful moments in my life because I get to be a mom right now. I get to have these experiences that I just want to see every year in my time hop. So if you are into pets or crochet or funny kids or food or musicals, Instagram is where to find my more personal side. And laughably, my handle is Axelbaumchicabam.

Jackie - 00:30:57:

You will have a new follower before the end of the day. I'm just letting you know. Axel, thank you so much for being on the show. This has been so insightful, so inspiring. I appreciate you.

Sara - 00:31:10:

Thank you so much for having me and for putting more of this into the world. I think that what you're doing here is great and it's really inspired me listening to other people talk about it. So it's been a privilege and an honor. Thank you.

Jackie - 00:31:27:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. If you enjoy the podcast, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become a part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, and TikTok. This show is proudly part of the Living Corporate Network and was edited and produced by Air Fluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.