Put down the self-help books and find your BREATH with Executive Coach Annie Leib

Jackie: Welcome to the Diversity Beyond the Checkbox Podcast. My guest today is Annie Leib. Annie is an award-winning CEO and executive coach, using the breath framework modality to guide leaders to become their most authentic selves and drive impact. Annie, thank you for joining us.

Annie: Thanks for having me, Jackie. I've been looking forward to this for a long time. I feel like we met a while ago and I'm finally here.

Jackie: Yes, me too. And thank you for recording this podcast on your birthday. Happy Birthday.

Annie: Thank you so much. I know I don't look a day over 25. No, I'm just kidding. I'm definitely older than 25. But you're welcome, this is a joy for me.

Jackie: I love it. Well, Annie, let's just jump into talking a little about yourself. Tell us about your background, your family, your identity, whatever you'd like to share.

Annie: Well, as you can see, I, I can't put this as my most top priority, but it's pretty close to my kids. I have a Phillies little sweatshirt on today. I'm a Philly girl. The sports in Philadelphia right now are crazy lit. Everybody's in playoffs mode and, and playing amazing football, and it's just making me really happy. So that's a big part of my life. 

I have two children who are my heart and soul. They are just about 11 and just turned 13, a girl and a boy. I have a corporate background in pharmaceuticals, in sales and business development for years. And then I went back to school in 2018 and put myself through an MBA program and that's when I decided I needed to start my own company.

And that's when I decided there was a gap in coaching that I thought I could fill. And I got my coaching certificate and that's sort of what, and I'll tell you the story of breath framework and how that was created. but that's really like the modality that I use. And what else could I tell you about? I love to read. I love to write. and we have a rescue dog named Randall. He's a pit bull.

Jackie: I love it. I love it. Thanks for that, Annie. So let's jump into the breath framework. Tell us about what that is and how you developed it?

Annie: Sure. So it goes back to 2014 and 2015, a very, very low time in my life, like sort of a rock bottom where I was just, I was getting a divorce. I was signing my divorce papers in an autobody shop because that's where the notary was, and I was like, wow, this is what my life has come to. I have a two-and-a-half-year-old and a four-and-a-half-year-old, and I looked over on the wall and get this, There's a Ralph Waldo Emerson poem on the wall of an auto body shop.

Okay. And I look and I see one sentence and it says something about breath, breathing. And I'm like, you know what? You can strip me of everything, but you cannot take my breath. That's mine. And I turned on my heel and I went to Center City Philadelphia, and I got breath tattooed on my hip. So fast forward.

I'm like, That's mine. It's hidden. You know, it's not for everybody to see. Only I know. And that is was such a powerful moment of me empowering myself to just not be at rock bottom anymore. So I built my life back brick by brick, by figuring out sort of that I wanted to start coaching, that I wanted to go back to, to get my MBA and go back to school at 40.

And as I was going through, The MBA program, I had like a couple consulting jobs on the side. Cause I had to put my way, make my way through school and I had kids at home and somebody was like, Annie, you really need to be, you need to be coaching like this is because in my cohort that's what I was doing.

I was coaching people and they were like; this is your calling. And I realized there's this gap in corporate America where there's a lot of professional development coaching. But there's not a lot where professional and personal development meet. And there's a lot of executives that are unhappy cuz they're not acting and living and being their most authentic selves.

Because I know that, because I was one of them. So I take, took my own experiences and I thought, I'm gonna start a company doing this. Then Covid hits

Jackie: mm-hmm.

Annie: and the world gets turned upside down and I'm like, what do I do? Like what do I do? I need to make money. Right? Like I need to figure out something. Well, I started to get really into LinkedIn and I said, Breath, that's such an important part of my world, and I made it an acronym for coaching.

So breath is a framework. It stands for, B is for begin where you are. R is reclaim your power. E is excavate your core values. A is allow, T is through and H is heal or healing. And so it's a journey, basically a six month or a year long journey that I take executives on where they go from their, begin all the way through to their heal, and I can tell you a little bit more about each one, but you get the gist of it.

It's taking people on a journey to this place of fulfillment and authenticity and healing and knowing themselves and knowing their purpose and their meaning. And so that's where it all started. And I got really sort of a, an audience on LinkedIn and I got some really awesome, really high-powered executives that believed in me from jump street.

And that's, I got, I got a little lucky in that regard. Not that I didn't do the work, but I was seen by the right people

Jackie: Absolutely.

Annie: and I, and my exposure led me down the road of being able to have a profitable business right away, by myself. So it was, it was, it was, it was an in, it's been an interesting ride, but it's been a really cool one.

Jackie: That's so awesome. You know, and it's so great to have that inspiration piece where you start from what you say is rock bottom.

Annie: Yeah.

Jackie: and having that moment of realization for yourself and then what do you do with that? I love That Annie, tell us what are some of the fears or concerns or questions that people have in coaching? And then I wanna double back into getting a little deeper into the breath framework.

Annie: Why am I, why have I been working so hard for so long and I'm not getting the promotion, I'm not making an impact. I'm not feeling adaptable. People aren't hearing me and seeing me. People aren't listening to me. I don't have a voice. What do you mean purpose? What are core values?

Jackie: Hmm.

Annie: What is my meaning here?

I'm just on a treadmill, like a, like a hamster on a on a wheel. That's, that's what I see the most, just going through the motions of life, and that's where I was. And Jackie, that's when I'm like, I see you and I can see the right away. And they feel seen and heard instantly, and that's where the connection starts and the trust starts to begin.

Jackie: Oh, that's, you know, it's so true because I would say all of us have felt that way in our careers at, at least at some point and, and it's frustrating, right? To feel like you're contributing and giving the best of yourself, but for some reason not getting the, one, the reward to just the acknowledgement of, of what you're doing.

So Annie, let's go back into the breath framework. Can you dig a little bit deeper? You know, not, not a full consulting right on this, on

Annie: Sure. I got you.

Jackie: but just a little deeper into each of those. And then we're gonna talk about your authentic self and, and how we find that.

Annie: So, B is for begin where you are and I, I made B begin because people come to me and they don't really know where their begin is. They often think they do, but I have to find a way to meet them where they are. If I don't meet them where they are, we're not gonna be aligned. So beginning is talking about sort of, a lot of times I can grasp what's going on intuitively.

If I just get one or two stories, I can kind of see some themes. Then I do some fulfillment exercises that I created to kind of see what makes them happy, where their values are, what's important to them, what's meaningful to them. That's where their begin is. We, I find them there. 

Then reclaim your power is a really interest. They're, they're all interesting, but is a really interesting one because we don't realize, Jackie, every day how we just give away our power minute after minute, hour after hour. We just give it away to people. We don't realize that That people are, are, there's energy suckers in our life. There's vampires, there are ways that we're speaking our language the way we're holding ourselves, the way we're conducting ourselves, that just gives away our, our inner power. 

And when you walk around like that, you feel it. You feel a, When I say depressed, I don't mean clinically depressed, but I mean like a depression where your shoulders are down and you're not feeling like you're making impact. That's part of it. It's that where did your power go? So finding that power. 

Excavate your core values is probably one of my favorites, and it's what I think you can probably glean from excavate, it's a real deep dive into what your core values are, and people often don't even know what that means. Or maybe they, like I did, I, I was like, I was looking at, I remember this a couple years ago, I was looking at a sheet that said all these different core values and I was like, why would someone pick freedom? What do you mean? Like in jail? Meanwhile, I did an excavation process and my biggest overarching core value is freedom, freedom to be authentically me. So people don't know when they start what their values are. So going through the excavation process with me is really helpful. 

1. Allow, allow, not control. We try to control so much in our life, putting all the pieces where they need to be, wanting someone to react the way we want them to react. Wanting someone's timeline to be our timeline. It's just, again, giving away your power, trying to control everything. When we start to learn how to allow and accept, that doesn't necessarily mean condoning other people's behavior. But when we start to allow things, we can put our shoulders back and go, you know what? That's their response. That's their trigger. That's not about me. Or, Yeah, I want it right now, but I'm not on, they're not on my timeline. I need to allow a little bit. 

Then we go to through, through is a really hard one. Through, not around, because I think what a lot, I know what a lot of people do is they try to go around the issues instead of sitting in the discomfort of going through.

Jackie: Mm-hmm.

Annie: like, let me just avoid it. Let me just go around escapisms, you know that, but like also, let me just not deal with it. Why should I bring that up? Why should I talk about that? It just bothers me because you need to go through it to get to the other side. And heal is the last one, and notice that it's not healed. 

because it's never past tense for me. It's always present tense. You're always evolving and healing if you're doing the work and you're on the journey. So healing to become fulfilled, to learn who your authentic self is and to become one and whole and find personal freedom. That's heal.

Jackie: I love it. I love it. You know, the, the thing for me, cuz I, I was following along in my head with what do I, do I know about myself?, what do I struggle with? And for me, allow is tough. You know, I'm the personality that's like, okay, if I can control everything, I have my plan A, my plan B, I don't need a plan C because I'll make people bend to my will in the A and B.

Right? And so that's, that's always a struggle for me. And even though I try to, you know, think about it, be present with it, understand it, relax into, you know, everyone thinks the way I do works the way I do, operates the way I do. That's, that's a tough one. and so I appreciate that. I'm gonna definitely think about that a little bit more.

Annie: Think about this question in your mind.

Jackie: Mm-hmm.

Annie: Figure out why you're the way you are. Not so much how you can change the way you are, but figure out the roots of why you want to control things and why you want it to be your way, versus trying to change it first.

Jackie: Wow, I never thought about that. And I think the answer for me is I feel comfort in routine and security in organization and if things are organized in my head and organized in my life, then I'm comfortable, more comfortable.

Annie: That's what you're used to. That feels good to you.

Jackie: Correct. But that's not everyone else.

Annie: No, and everybody else's comfort isn't the same as yours. So having empathy and compassion for other people that don't operate like you, that's where the allow comes from, when you can actually say, oh, I see this person's perspective now I get it. It's an understanding of others. Then you understand yourself.

Jackie: Yeah, absolutely. oh, such good advice and information there, you know, and, and that's my job is to understand different perspectives. But I do continue to struggle with that when it comes to certain things in the way that I work in the, in the way that I just lay out plans in my processes. So that's very helpful. Thank you for that.

Annie: Sure.

Jackie: Annie, you have shared that your mission is to help others find their authentic selves. Tell us about your authentic self?

Annie: Huh. Well, part of the reason, Jackie, that I know that that's my mission is because for so long I was not my authentic self. I didn't know I wasn’t; I wasn't purposely being inauthentic. That's what people kind of don't get. It's not so much like I walked around phony and fake. I'm as real as they come.

It's that I didn't understand who I was authentically. I didn't understand that I needed to embrace certain things about myself instead of trying to change them, just as we were talking about allowing, my next thing I was gonna say to you was, maybe you need to start to embrace the way you are a little bit instead of trying to be different.

But that's, that's for another day, another conversation. But, I mean, I could talk about that forever, but you know, I, I think that my truest, most authentic self, someone that, so Real quick story. Breath was my first tattoo, and then I, I got this, which is Hebrew for Truth on my wrist. And then I got Love, right?

And then I also have freedom on my arm. So I became this like, scared of my dad to get, you know, for him to find out Tattoo Girl. And I was hiding it on my hip to like, it's gonna be on my wrist and on my arm now. And those are my core values, right? So I wear them on my pulse points and in my, I, so like when I stand in my core values, when I stand in love, freedom, perseverance, trust and truth.

When I lean into them in every way, then I can be authentically Annie, and when I'm authentically me, and that means sometimes it's gonna cause conflict with people. People aren't going to agree. Sometimes people aren't going to like me, and that's okay.

Jackie: Mm-hmm.

Annie: When I can be authentically me, I can truly be free.

Jackie: Yeah.

Annie: That freedom word that I was like, what’s that even mean? Why would someone pick that at me? While it's everything to me?

Jackie: Right, right, right. I love that. And then Annie, how do we begin to start thinking about our own core values and what they could be?

Annie: Think to yourself, I mean, I have some exercises I do when I'm coaching one on one, but I'll give you, I'll give you one, just like a little exercise for you to think about it. You're listening and you're thinking, what does that even mean? Where do I start? Close your eyes and just describe out loud to yourself.

Or even write it. But I like closing your eyes and saying it out loud. When the last time you felt fulfilled, when was that? How did it feel? How did it taste? How did it smell, all the details of the last time you felt fulfilled? Now, I'll tell you about 50% of people are like, I don't even know what fulfilled means.

What are you talking about? And I'm like, we have some work to do. the other 50% can describe something to me and I can pull out from what they've described, what is most meaningful to them. And, and, and then we sort of start to work through the excavation process. But think about what is meaningful to you?

What makes you lit up? What makes, what drives you in the morning? What gets you outta bed? You know, is it that silent time with your coffee? Then you might really, really like, value, sort of solace, you know, like silence. Like there's all these different things that people don't, you know, was it in, I had a client the other day that said I was in the ocean with my husband and I just looked up in the sky and I thought, God, this is just everything right now. 

And I thought, that's freedom. You value your freedom so much. The vast ocean is where you feel the most fulfilled. Think about that. So these are the conversations that we have to sort of dig into that, but that's a good starting.

Jackie: Thank you for that. I love that. You know, the way that we think about ourselves is a little more surface. You're really encouraging us to dig deeper into our motivations, and that's really interesting. You know, with, with all of the books, the, you know, the self-help books on being a better professional and, and finding your, you know, your personal fulfillment.

There’s so often a, a superficial, just kind of base to it, and finding your own motivation and finding what really moves you is right, but almost novel because so many people don't do that, right?

Annie: Well, it's, you're talking about, in my opinion, you're talking about meaning and purpose, like, and not enough people know how to look for that, so they just don't. And so it's this surface, like I said, that hamster on a wheel, kind of surfacey life, and you're like, why don't you stop at 40 or 35 or 55? And you're like, why am I so unfulfilled?

Jackie: right.

Annie: Why doesn't anything light me up? And it's like things light you up. You just haven't found them. You're ignoring them. We haven't uncovered them. Like there are ways to figure this out. You don't need to live a life of suffering, and not being happy and content. I'm not saying every day is rainbows and butterflies.

That is not what I mean. Happiness to me is not a state of mind. I have a whole theory on this, but it's moments,

Jackie: Yeah.

Annie: moments that you can grab onto and put in your pocket for later. It's going, when my kid laughed the other day, that belly laugh, I got a feeling in my stomach and my heart that I haven't felt in a week, and it was unbelievable.

That's a moment. That's a happiness that you have to go back to when you're not feeling so good.

Jackie: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Annie one of your focuses is merging your authentic self with your professional goals in a world where, you know, there's still that work persona where, you know, I, I'm fine, thank you. Great. You know, great. And you're, you have to separate your personal and professional. Tell us about how we navigate that, putting those two pieces together?

Annie: You have to learn, great question. You have to learn what boundaries are, so you have to understand that being totally guarded and kind of, I don't wanna say icy or cold, but closed off is not going to get you to a place where people understand you, know you, wanna be like you. It doesn't make an impact. You're not vulnerable. 

Getting to a place where you can show your vulnerability, and I'll give you a great example in a sales call, if I'm worried about something not going right, the first thing I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go, I gotta tell you something, Jackie. I'm real worried about. Right now I'm gonna focus on this, but this is what I'm worried about.

Jackie: Mm-hmm.

Annie: It is putting your vulnerability right out there. It is showing your authentic self and saying, this is what worries me, and I'm, I'm not gonna hide that from you. I'm worried about this, but then showing, okay, but I can tell you this part, if any of this makes sense. I mean, I'm not giving you a real-life example, but.

It's being able to be vulnerable and admit what you don't know, admit a weakness and show a little of your underbelly. It's okay. We're human. We're human. You can say you made a mistake. The way that I've led people in the past has always been, I'm, I'm a human just like you. We put our pants on one leg at a time.

You know, I'm not higher than you cause I'm the CEO of this company. That's a bunch of crap. I'll never be like that. I want more leaders to, to not, it’s not about title, it's about who you are as a person, and this is starting to, in some companies, some corporations I'm working in, this is starting to really come into play where leading from your heart is happening.

It's not everywhere. It's gonna take a while, but leading with empathy and compassion and heart, it doesn't make you weak. People think vulnerability is weakness, and that's where I kind of school them on that. If that's not the case.

Jackie: Annie, that's so true because in the work that I do in diversity, equity, and inclusion, that vulnerability piece for inclusive leadership is so important. Because it's, you know, I'm Gen X, right? So when I entered the workplace, it was, your boss has the answers, they're the right answers. Head down, do your work, get promoted at the right time.

Annie: Be the robot. 

Jackie: That's right. Exactly. But now the expectation of employees is that that manager, that CEO, is more authentic, is really able to say, I made a mistake, or I don't know the answer. And that's new and it's very uncomfortable for a lot of leaders, right, to move into that space.

But you have to because that is the expectation of employees. To have leaders that they respect, that they feel connected to, that they feel their values align and it's important. It's important. I love that.

Annie: You're so right on. I mean, think about it, Jackie, in every relationship in your life, where is vulnerability not important?

Jackie: Hmm.

Annie: Personal, professional work, home, friends, family, children, bosses, CEOs, C-Suite. Where is that, where you go, I don't need that?

Jackie: Right. You never do that.

Annie: You never do that. It's important to bring you close with people, to have them understand you, but most importantly, Jackie, you have to learn about who you are first.

That's what I push. Learn who your authentic self is, your purpose, your meaning, first. Then you can help people do the same. That's how you lead.

Jackie: I love that. Absolutely. So on your site, annieleib.com, you share that you can experience unwavering self-belief, and that's a challenge for so many of us. How do we start that journey?

Annie: Well, you call me and we make a consult. No, it, it's, that is, it's a very strong phrase, unwavering self-belief, because to get there it feels like, whoa, like I don't have any self-belief right now. Am I gonna get to unwavering self-belief? But it's all about my whole process. It is digging deep into your soul and your heart. And figuring out who you are, why you're here, what's your mission, what's your meaning, what's your purpose? All these questions we can answer through my process. And then you will say, I like who I am and I believe in me. That's unwavering self-belief. That means that you'll get criticized and it might hurt.

Things can go wrong and you might screw up. Somebody might be mad at you, but you can say, I have a little bubble around me, and that's not going, that's not gonna ping myself worth. It's a mistake, but it's not going to dent what I've created around me.

Jackie: Mm, I love that. You know, and, and that's so right, because when we think about. You know, being nervous or being uncomfortable or being unsure, which is something that most people that I've talked to have experienced, and significantly. So how do you find that, that personal piece, that little bit of solace where you're like, you know what, I'm gonna do the best I can that's always gonna be good enough.

Annie: It takes work. It takes doing the work. My first step is always start journaling when you feel like that. I don't care if you are a, an, an intern or the top, the head of a $20 billion company. Just have a personal journal and when you start to feel overwhelmed like that or like I'm not making the right impact, or I feel I get anxious when I feel like that.

I get, I get like an anxious feeling. I just have my journal. I free write for five minutes and all of a sudden I get a reset. It's like pressing the reset button. And I will say to people in a funny way, when I first meet them, I don't just journal for me five minutes before bed, for the next week until I see you again.

I don't care if you journal about trauma in your life or McChicken, McNuggets, I don't care. Just write for me. You will be amazed what comes out and I've had 98% of people jump on board with me with that. There's always the hardheaded one that's like, I'm not, I, I can't, I can't write, you know, and we'll get there, but 90, 9.8 outta 10 people are like, Annie, this is what I figured out when I was writing.

You know? And it just brings you, it resets you, it centers you. And I'm all about being centered, finding your center and resetting. That's 

Jackie: And you know, Annie, I think one of the, the issues that we have is that we're so busy, right? We're moving from thing to thing to thing to responsibility, responsibility, responsibility. And we don't take that sometimes just five minutes to say, how am I feeling? What am I thinking? And that can make a difference.

Annie: Five minutes a day. That's nothing. That's nothing. It can make a difference. I know it sounds a little woo woo. It's really not. I promise you. Five minutes and it's, and if you have to, time block. Carve that five minutes out, put it in your, I have, alarms that go off all day on my phone. Like, you need to do this now for 15 minutes.

You need to do this for the next hour. You have Jackie now her podcast. Okay. Then you have a break. You have 15 minutes to look at the wall and stare and just think. Like, I put it all into my planner or else it doesn't get done.

Jackie: Right.

Annie: So saying yeah, I’ll journal, I’ll journal, is different than actually saying the, the timer just went off. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna stop what I'm doing and I have a gratitude alarm on my phone every time it dings. At 8:00 PM every night, my kids go gratitude, and we stop whatever we did we're doing, and we say what we're grateful for in that moment. And no matter where we are or what we're doing, how serious or how light, we all know that we are grateful in that moment and we share it with each other.

Jackie: I love that. I love that. What a great tip. I mean, you're giving so many nuggets, Annie, that we can implement today. I think that's fantastic. Let's talk about your book, Begin with the Breath. Tell us why we need to read it.

Annie: So this is, Begin with a Breath. This was written a while ago with a group of, we're, we're, we're, It's a, a collaborative book. It's a group of coaches that I've worked with in the past, all friends of mine, all really, really strong, empowered women. And basically I wrote the introduction about what breath framework is, which we talked about and how it started and that whole story.

And then they wrote how it's affected their life. So I all these chapters of these strong, empowered coaches and women and people that are doing things in life and making light makers, you know, like light workers, and they're talking about how my framework has impacted their life. And it's so cool to me that it's just, I didn't say you have to write.

They just sort of came together and did it. And so to read it is really to learn about a little bit more about breath framework and how it's affected other people and how it can affect your life as well and impact you.

Jackie: Yeah. Love that, love that. Annie, right now self-care is a buzzword. What do we get wrong about self-care and you know, why are spa days just not enough?

Annie: So alright, I have a couple different angles with that. Some people feel guilty about self-care, so like taking a spa day. Some people are, I could never do that. That's such a waste, right? And it's like, wait, no, it's not. you're allowed to take that time. So I'm not anti-spa days, right? But it's not enough for to be on the journey and to do the mental work.

It's a great reset and I believe in it firmly, and I push men, women, and everybody in between to take time out for themselves. In fact, with a lot of my executives I coach, I need to really say to them, when are you taking your next day off? Tell me the date and book it in your calendar now, because they just. 

But where do we get it wrong? It's that we don't wanna do the work. We wanna just sit and get a massage. And that's great, but that's not gonna help grow you and evolve you and help you find your meaning and purpose and help you make this life the meaningful one it should be, that's what we miss.

Jackie: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. Mm. Any, what do we do, right? So this all sounds amazing. There are things that we can implement today, which is great, but then what do we do when life happens, right? When we've got work frustrations and the kids are stressing us out, and our car breaks down and we're sitting in traffic, how do we bring ourselves back to center?

Annie: So I'll tell you this, Jackie, in the last week, last two weeks, I was planning my son's bar mitzvah for about a year. It just happened, and it was amazing. But three days before that, we had a family tragedy and somebody passed.

Jackie: Oh,

Annie: Tragically. and talk about life happening, right? Like we're on this high of, of this celebration of my son becoming a man.

And I started to think, you know what it said to me? It doesn't matter where anyone sits, it doesn't matter what the programs look like, it doesn't matter if the favors are perfect, here's what matters, that we're together and we love each other and there's so much love in this room. So it started to really, it puts things in perspective when life happens.

But I don't mean to sound redundant. The way to stop yourself is to write about it. Like that is so my go-to, like when life is happening, take those five minutes out and just breathe.

Jackie: Yeah.

Annie: Just breathe. You can do five or 10 minutes. It will reset you and bring you back to center because you know what things are put in perspective real fast when a tragedy happens, and all of a sudden getting to that soccer game of five minutes late isn't such a big deal.

Jackie: Absolutely.

Annie: That little tiff you had with a coworker. Mm, you, you forgive, right? It's just everything is put in perspective like that. So writing is a really good way to kind of center yourself and realign, if you will.

Jackie: Mm-hmm. And Annie, tell us again, because you're, you're saying writing is important. Tell us again why we should write when we're not writers. Right? I know you get that pushback. I'm not a writer. I can't.

Annie: I do, I can't write. What do I write about? What do I write about? Right? why should you write? Because there's, now here's an Annie tip.

This is not clinically proven, but I have like a thing with this. Use a paper and pencil or pen and write it in a journal. Do not type it. There is something cathartic about the thought going from the mind to the hand to the paper, and that you expressing yourself in a notebook or a journal versus just typing.

I, I feel that as strongly as I sit here right now just to say, it is so important to just know what's underneath the underneath to get to the underneath, right? Like to get to who you are, to get to your core. The stuff we hold in, the stuff we bury.

Jackie: Yeah. 

Annie: You don't have to be a writer. You know why? No one's editing this. No one's reading this, but you, this is an exercise in freedom. Use it as such. This is not being, why, why don't people wanna write? Cuz they, they think they're gonna be judged or they think they're gonna do it wrong.

Jackie: Yeah.

Annie: It's like doing yoga or, or, you know, deep mindfulness. People are like, I can't do that. I don't know. I can't do it. You know, and it's like, it's not about if you do it right,

Jackie: Right,

Annie: it's just the meditative part of breathing, that's doing it right? Writing is not about, you're not, Again, don't care if you write about chicken McNuggets that you had for lunch yesterday or your childhood trauma. Just start with, and don't worry about what anybody else thinks. Don't judge yourself, most importantly.

Jackie: Mm-hmm.. Yeah. It's the practice of it. I love that. Absolutely. And I love that you said get to the underneath, because we very often as adults’ kind of build, what the expectations are of us, you know, from work to personal, what people are doing around us that we're adding on to who we really aren't right?

Annie: Yes,

Jackie: and it's getting to the underneath, definitely, especially for, you know, I'm almost 50, I'm thinking about myself at almost 50, and then my daughter at 20. There's so many more layers, right, That I've gotta work through in, you know, entering the workplace as a Gen Z Young, or Gen X, rather young professional.

And, you know, going through the motions and all the things that layer onto who we think we are. But really, as you said, excavating, getting down deep. Who we really are and what really motivates us. So getting to the underneath I think is so important.

Annie: Are you wearing a mask? No pun intended, with the pandemic, but like are you walking around wearing an invisible mask that you wear and you're not really yourself? There's codependency issues. There's toxicity in your relationships, there's unhealthiness all around you. Are you really, truly being who you are?

Well, someone might say, I don't know who I really am. Well, let's figure it out. That's the, that's the gift here. That's the lesson. We just have to figure it out, and we all can.

Jackie: Absolutely. Annie, how can people find you? How can they buy your book? How can they explore your consulting?

Annie: So, annieleib.com is the first place to go. Actually, it doesn't beat out my baby. My favorite place in the world, my playground and office, which is LinkedIn.

Jackie: Okay.

Annie: That is my, like, that's where my people are. I feel like I go to the office and play around all day when I'm on there. so you can find me under Annie Leib, on LinkedIn as well, and also my website and I'm very. Like, not only am I approachable, but I'm, I'm accessible so people can DM me. I will get back to them. I'm not like, you know, thinking I'm too big for my britches or anything, so just shoot me a, a message and I'd love to chat with you.

Jackie: Love it. Love it. Annie, what's the message that you wanna leave our listeners with?

Annie: That it is not too late and it is not too hard to find your authentic self.

Jackie: I love it. Thank you so much. This has been so great. You know, again, slowing down to figure out what really moves us, what motivates us, what makes us genuinely happy, you know, it's not Always what we're thinking about when we're moving through our day at this rapid pace, but to slow down and dig into who we really are and, and what makes us feel fulfilled. I, I love that. Annie, thank you so much for spending some time with me today. Again, happy birthday.

Annie: Thank you. It was an absolute joy and delight to be with you and I would do it again in a second. I loved it. You have a very calming, meditative way about you and great questions, and it was just really fun. So thanks.

Jackie: Thank you so much, Annie. Thank you.