The Monumental Maverick: Jamie Love’s Story of Breaking Barriers and Giving Back

Jackie - 00:00:10:

Welcome to season 10 of Diversity Beyond the Checkbox, proudly presented by the Diversity Movement and part of the Living Corporate Network. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, author, business leader, and human rights advocate. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the stories of trailblazers, game changers, and glass ceiling breakers who share insights and professional success and personal development. Thank you for being part of this amazing community. Enjoy the show. You're listening to Diversity Beyond the Checkbox. I'm joined today by LGBTQ plus activist, marketer and entrepreneur, Jamie Love. Jamie, welcome to the show.

Jamie - 00:00:55:

Thanks for having me, Jackie.

Jackie - 00:00:57:

I'm so excited about this conversation. Jamie, can you share just a bit about your journey growing up in the Middle East and how your experiences shaped your activism and your career path?

Jamie - 00:01:10:

Yeah, absolutely. So as you mentioned, I grew up in the Middle East where being gay is illegal. And I really use that as my fire to build what I built today. And I think in hindsight, it was actually an amazing, obviously not at the time, but it was an amazing experience to really understand the need for some of the things that in the Western world we take for granted. But it also kind of outlined how much more there is to do. So, yeah, I started my activism work when I was like 19 through a campaign actually called Be Your Own Hero. And I think it was because there is this sort of narrative of like, who's your role model? Who do you look up to? And almost like creating this need to have someone to match up to. And actually, I think for a lot of LGBT or queer people, having that fire from within to just actually create your own journey and path is so important. So that was the idea with the Be Your Hero campaign. And then from there, that kind of spiraled into the marketing work I did to the company I set up, which was monumental.

Jackie - 00:02:22:

That's amazing. And speaking of be your own hero, right? What inspired you to start Monumental at 21? And then what were your goals for the agency?

Jamie - 00:02:34:

The inspiration was kind of using that power and passion for just... True diversity and inclusion. I had a bit of a negative time working for other people. I didn't do the whole traditional go to uni, get a grad job and all of that. So I think a lot of people had an issue with me being young and in the position that I was in. And there was, yeah, like people looking down on me or being too gay to do stuff that I was very capable of doing. So there was that kind of diversity element of I wanted to create a true home for diversity to thrive, regardless of who you like or what you look like or your age, that you can succeed. And through doing that, we created this insane team of super passionate and crazy experienced and skilled people. And on the other side, I think there was a real gap. This was in 2017. There was a real gap of marketing that delivered bottom line results. I worked with some companies that were startups and scale ups. And a lot of agencies sell this kind of smoke and mirror dream of everybody will know your brand. But that's not what those companies need. Those companies need sales, they need memberships, they need people buying. And that's the kind of marketing I love to do. So I basically just blended those two things, the passion for diversity and the passion to drive real impact to brands that are doing incredible things.

Jackie - 00:04:07:

I love that. And you know, what's so interesting is. Going back again to, you know, be your own hero, you needed to create something because, you know, like so many of us, you are underestimated for multiple reasons, right? And so being a CEO and an entrepreneur at such a young age is so incredible. Demi, tell me, what gave you the courage, right? So many of us want to do something new or step out, but we're afraid. What gave you the courage to go ahead and do that despite being underestimated?

Jamie - 00:04:47:

I mean, I wish I had a really great answer for this, but like the simple answer is I had nothing to lose. I was 21. I was broke. I got fired from my last job. And it was like, well... What can I actually lose right now? And I was thinking like I heard, I want to have a family. I want to have kids. I want to have time to do the things that are purpose-led and value-led in my life. I don't want to be burning out at 38 with three kids or whatever it might be. So it felt like actually it made so much sense of like, let's do this young and commit my 20s to building something huge that is going to leave a legacy way into my later life and in hindsight, I probably could have waited a couple of years and gotten a little bit more experience and asked for more help and maybe have a mentor or two. It definitely would have made the experience much better. But then I did burn out at 25 and I suffered the consequences of the physical and mental kind of burden that that has for two years. But off the back of that, I've, built a podcast called Beyond Burnout, Beyond Anxiety. And that again has given me this kind of unique insight into like the importance of mental health and the importance of balance and stuff like that. So I'm a big fan of just taking something that maybe hasn't worked out too well and kind of using it as a fire to, yeah, to learn and to create a resource for other people in a similar position.

Jackie - 00:06:25:

I love that, Jamie. And so many of us feel like we've made a misstep and we consider it failure. But you take these kind of learning moments and turn them around into something positive, like your podcast, like starting a business. I think that is incredible. And certainly that's a lesson for all of us to not be so afraid to make a mistake or to mess something up, because you can learn from that, turn it around and make something amazing from it. So I think that's so inspiring.

Jamie - 00:07:01:

I think the cool thing with that is you can use something that is really terrible or really painful and make it your strength. And I'm really happy and excited by that in the sense that. I mean, in some ways, it's kind of coming to terms with being vulnerable and accepting vulnerability. And on the other side, you're taking something that could be knocking you down, but actually it's the thing that is going to prop you up and take you to the next step. I think with the burnout piece, I'm working on a book deal off the back of that and stuff like that. And it's kind of like, that's great. Like, it's going to pay for all the therapy I needed. But jokes aside, it's going to be awesome.

Jackie - 00:07:46:

Absolutely. That is fantastic. That's so exciting. Tell us a little more about the book if you can. I know it's early on and not yet released, but tell us what we're going to learn from it or what we'll gain.

Jamie - 00:08:01:

So the book is going to be called Beyond Burnout. And it's a book for entrepreneurs, directors of companies that... I mean, the reality is if you run a company or have a business, you can't sign off sick. You can't take a mental health day because you just can't because you're going to lose money. And that's the reality of it. So it's kind of looking at that and exploring. I mean, in the intro, it kind of says, like, I don't actually know where this book will go. And I don't know if I'm going to give you an answer at the end of how to do it right. But I'm going to share my story and be vulnerable and hopefully through that kind of point out, like, that was maybe a point that I needed to take a step back or that was maybe an opportunity I needed to say no to. And how do we kind of build a purpose led life without it completely taking over our life? And so that's the kind of idea for the book. And I'm super excited to write it. And I do think it's going to be really valuable because the more I've opened up about it and the podcast kind of taking off, the more people have kind of confided in me and said, actually, I don't know. I now don't know one entrepreneur that hasn't had an experience of burnout. And unfortunately, there is no resources or help out there that is targeted or specific for entrepreneurs. I mean, I actually called when it got really bad. I had to call an emergency sort of national health service. And their answer was to have a cold shower. And I'm like, well. I've been in a panic attack for four hours because of my life, you know, everything going on in my life. A cold shower ain't going to cut it. So clearly the help isn't there. And that's what I want this book to do is to kind of point out resources, share kind of stories and just know that you're not alone. Although being an entrepreneur is a very lonely journey, you are not alone in what you're going through and what you're feeling. I've probably felt and other people have felt as well. And let me share my story. So you can kind of yeah, maybe not make the same mistakes and take better care of yourself.

Jackie - 00:10:08:

Absolutely. And Jamie, you're right. That's so important. And as entrepreneurs, you're pushing so hard to get to that success point where you're like, okay, when I get here, I'll be able to. Take a break or breathe, right? But it's a long road to get from zero to that point. And even for me. I, you know, when we started the diversity movement, there was a small group of us, but there was a point where I had worked. Straight through the holidays. I was pushing 70 hour weeks and my hair was falling out. And it's like, that is not uncommon for entrepreneurs to, you know, have that experience. And one of the things that I had to realize later on was, okay, I have to create a right integration between work and rest. And the things that I like to do and what's my practice of self-care on a regular basis, not just, you know, the spa appointment, but what are the things that allow me to wind down to get a break? And that's so important. So that's, that's great. I think that's going to be helpful for a lot of people, especially entrepreneurs who feel like they have to push it, you know, every single day. So that is great.

Jamie - 00:11:34:

I love that.

Jackie - 00:11:35:

Jamie, tell us a little more about Monumental. How has it evolved since it started? And can you share some of the companies that you're able to work with?

Jamie - 00:11:46:

Absolutely. So since it started, it's been a whirlwind. And looking back, I did this recently, I built the timeline and looked at kind of revenue and clients. And between year three and year four, our revenue tripled every year consistently. So the growth has just been insane. And from now till the next five years, our goal is to continue tripling if not continuing. So we're on a crazy growth drive and it's fabulous. And in terms of companies that we work with, I think some of the most known ones are the likes of like Lululemon, who... Kind of publicly traded company. And we're working with more companies like them to inject. Diversity into their marketing. And, you know, for a company like Lululemon, who, you know, is a multi-billion dollar company, we are the first diversity agency that they use that's kind of specialized in kind of injecting diversity into their marketing, working with diverse creators and kind of giving back to diverse communities through it. And that's really the purpose of Monumental is to act as an engine of diversity, supporting the big guys in representing our society authentically, as well as then supporting kind of small and startup diverse businesses in growing and succeeding. And then we've got our kind of supporting of diverse talent and recruitment and growth. We deliver content to students, to two and a half thousand students so far. And then we give back hundreds of thousands and dollars into diverse creators that are able to be supported through our work in delivering their creativity and engaging their audiences. So Monumental really is an engine. The growth of it means that the engine just gets bigger and we can support them.

Jackie - 00:13:47:

That's so amazing. And you know, Jamie, We've all heard those marketing stories where brands tried to foray into some diverse marketing. And, you know. Some inclusive marketing strategies and failed, right? It's so important that whether or not your organization or your agency is diverse, you're bringing in someone who can provide those voices because our society is becoming more and more diverse and you don't want to lose out as an organization on that spend. The thing that has really changed is that Consumers aren't buying based on brand. They're buying based on their connection with the brand. And that's something. And so it's so important to understand what your brand stands for and does that resonate with your base? And if not, what changes do you have to make, not just in your messaging, but internally too and internally first so that it's authentic? And bringing in organizations like Monumental is so important to be able to look at real authentic messaging, understand if that aligns with your consumer base, and then have good feedback in the room about how you create those messages. It's so important for organizations. And that's how you get it right.

Jamie - 00:15:18:

100%. And I think you make two amazing points. First, obviously, the authenticity piece, but then also understanding which part of diversity resonates with audiences. Because I think a lot of companies think, oh, diversity, I'll hire the gay kid to do a TikTok, the black girl to be in the commercial. And it's like, well, no, that's not how it's done. So what we call it is like your diversity foundation. So that's where we would go in and understand your audience and understand you as a company like where is the meeting point in the middle? And what does it mean? So we were working with a fintech company, actually. And they were like, okay, we have this diversity, we need to reach diversity. And I was like, no, no, no, pop the brakes on. And it was like, understanding, I think for them, it was actually when we kind of drilled into it, their diversity thing was actually around accessibility of gender diversity in finance. And I was like, forget all the rest. That's the thing that you can speak authentically on, you have a real passion for and your team can actually deliver on. Trying to do this campaign for pride doesn't matter right now. That's your thing. Like, be really concise in how you communicate that to the right audiences. But don't try and be everything because no one's everything. I mean, even Monumental as a diversity agency, we're not everything. And I think people respect that a lot more. And as you say, the new consumers connect with companies very differently. And I think the minute you have a story and a why, and you can explain why you're doing this, and in this case, it was because we care around about gender diversity in our industry, and we're super passionate about that. People get behind that. But doing the kind of the token, here's the gay guy doing a video or the black girl reading the script ain't going to cut it.

Jackie - 00:17:12:

That's right. Absolutely. You're so right about that, Jamie. Now, speaking of connecting with consumers, tell us more about Monumentals donations because you're very committed to making significant donations. Tell us more about that.

Jamie - 00:17:30:

Yeah, so a big part of what I want to achieve through Monumental is to support companies that can't afford Monumental, to put it bluntly. And those companies are traditionally charities who improve the lives of diverse people. So some example of those are we basically deliver the whole of Pride Edinburgh. We give a number of pro bono hours to other prides. We support the launch and the growth of Black women in tech. So it's really kind of focused on, as I say, just improving the lives of diverse people, whether that is in an everyday sort of existence through the likes of Pride, all the way to accessibility of roles in tech for Black women. So that's kind of our focus. And the way that we kind of assign that is actually just through our team of, OK, what's important to you and how can we support a cause that's important to you with the skills that we have in-house? And we build it that way, as well as then kind of charities coming to us for support. So it's not a super method, you know, kind of thought out thing. But it's something that's super important to us. And last year we did 150 grand, which is about $200,000 in free work for these charities. And the goal is to kind of grow that year on year and be able to do more of it as we grow ourselves.

Jackie - 00:18:57:

That's amazing. Now, Jamie, you mentioned Pride Edinburgh. So let's talk about that. Your work helped grow the attendance by 2,500%. Is that right? In just five years?

Jamie - 00:19:10:

That's correct, yeah.

Jackie - 00:19:12:

Tell us about the strategies and initiatives that you use to obtain that kind of significant success.

Jamie - 00:19:20:

Well, I mean, I love a growth story. So when anyone hires me, I'm like, okay, let's blow this up. Like we need to kind of impact more. And Pride was one of them. So there was just a lot of gaps from my point of view in terms of like communication, in terms of engagement with the actual community and actually realizing that. Edinburgh is a capital city with huge impact on things. And, you know, through the kind of growth and visibility, we've been able to drive so much more, so many more kind of eyes and ears to the community and the needs of the community. And I mean, Scotland is... The first country to introduce LGBT education at schools. It's the first country to kind of allow same-sex marriages. So we wanted to really kind of push that and through the growth of it, be able to influence parliament and kind of policies to improve the lives of LGBT people. So that was the idea and the strategies were many through talent alignment and so we kind of continuously have bigger and bigger talent that draws in more people. Sponsorship alignment with brands that care about the community and want to deliver something that is going to actually help. So we have a brand this year, for example, and we're trying to beat the record for the number of HIV screenings in one day and so that's what this brand is doing with us. So yeah, I'm a big fan of achieving growth creatively on shoestring budgets usually. And that has a real purpose to it. So it's not just like, oh, this is a cute campaign. It's actually like, how do we drive impact for the communities we're engaging with? So that was a bit of a politician's answer, but there's just so much in my head right now.

Jackie - 00:21:12:

I love that. That's so important. You know, you want to drive awareness and then impact is so important. That's so great. Jamie, when you think about the key principles that guide Monumental's approach to accessibility and representation for diverse groups. What comes to mind there?

Jamie - 00:21:34:

I think when it comes to key principles, it's really just being open to the unknown. And I think, as we already mentioned, diversity is such a big umbrella word for so many things. So I think being open to new theories and new ideas and fostering a culture of true openness, honesty and inclusion is definitely one of the key principles that has driven our growth. We actually have surveys that go out every week for the team. And one of the questions this week was around what would make Monumental the best employer. And someone answered saying, I genuinely feel I can be myself at work and speak openly. And I was like, OK, this is awesome. Like I've achieved what I needed to achieve. I can die happy. But yeah, I think that's definitely the key principle is really around the culture because, you know, people buy from people. People connect with people and our job is people. So starting with the culture is really the foundation and probably the key principle in the growth.

Jackie - 00:22:41:

That's amazing. So Jamie, you deliver training to students and companies on diversity and inclusion. What are some of the core messages that you're emphasizing in these sessions? And how do you measure the impact of your training programs on participants and organizations?

Jamie - 00:22:59:

I think the key message is that diversity marketing is mainstream. It's not a nice to have the otolaryngo aside. It's, you know, the whole world of marketing has changed. The way we engage with content and platforms have changed. And society needs to be reflected in every part of your marketing, not in a cute pride campaign, not in a cute Black History Month campaign. So that's really the key message is diversity marketing is mainstream marketing, and it delivers impact. In terms of measuring that success, I... I definitely keep in touch with, well, not all two and a half thousand. I'm unfortunately not that popular, but I try and keep in touch with as many people and students as I can to see how these things are leveraged. And I think actually the biggest impact that I've driven through it is people just asking the questions of actually, should we do this better? Should we have better representation in this campaign? That's all I can ask for is someone that's somewhere in some boardroom is asking a question of. Are we being true to society and to our community? And a lot of the times to the people that work in our business, right? That's really the key thing for me to take out. It's just, I hope somewhere, somehow, people are just asking the question of, can this be different? Could we do this better?

Jackie - 00:24:23:

That's so important. And then Jamie, what advice would you give to organizations who are looking to create a more inclusive and supportive environment for their employees? You're doing that so well based on the surveys that you just shared, but give us some advice on how the rest of us do that for our organizations.

Jamie - 00:24:44:

Sure. I mean, I think it starts with... Kind of really accepting vulnerability, because through vulnerability, you get innovation, creativity, honesty. And unfortunately, I mean, I'm a huge fan of Brene Brown and her teachings and how we kind of bring those into the workplace. And it doesn't mean that people are having to share things that they're uncomfortable with or things that are personal or anything like that. But I think creating a culture where someone can put their hand up and be like, like, actually, I really messed up with this. And if that culture is there, that's kind of step one to being able to kind of take it to the next level, to just have conversations about like, how do, and we do this every three months of like, how do we make this environment better for you and for us and for people like us? And kind of have that continuous, you know, to create a culture of continuous improvement. And again, that's on the basis of vulnerability to say this doesn't quite work for us or this could be better or I could have done this better. So I'd say, yeah, vulnerability, honesty, culture of kind of continuous innovation and improvement. And I think the final piece is around kind of celebrating the small wins. Really recognising individuals and seeing them as the great work that they do, regardless of what they look like or where they're at. I think looking back on it and looking at the culture I built, everything changed the minute I truly embraced vulnerability. When I burnt out, I tried to keep that hidden for a year. And our revenue took a hit. Our team's happiness took a hit. And the minute I opened up and I was like, actually, guys, this is what I'm really struggling with. And I know I'm your leader and I shouldn't be saying these things. Everything changed. People have brought a real caring culture to work, a real honesty. And through that, we've been able to succeed like we've never had before.

Jackie - 00:26:42:

That's amazing, Jamie. And what you just said was the key. Because what happens a lot of times is leaders say, oh, be vulnerable, take risks. It's okay to make mistakes. But if they're not modeling that themselves, that team is not going to feel comfortable and feel that license to be able to do that themselves. And you're right. It takes a hit on productivity and innovation and all of the things because they don't feel comfortable saying, I made a mistake, or I need a minute, or I tried this thing and it didn't work. And so as leaders, that's a new experience for so many of us who have been leading for decades where you had to have all the answers and have it figured out. And now what employees are looking for are leaders that say, I don't know all these things. I don't know all these things. I don't know all these things. I don't know all the answers. I need help. I don't have it all right. And so that's so important to creating that kind of culture. And I love that you said that, Jamie. That is the most important thing for leaders to model that vulnerability. And that's how you create a culture that's a little more connected and a little more open. So that's so important. So important.

Jamie - 00:28:03:

It leads people to take more accountability in their jobs as well. Cause if you can put your hand up as the leader and be like, Oh, that's on me. That's my bad. That's my mistake. Then people are like, okay, cool. Like it's okay to make mistakes and I can take accountability and it's not a dramatic thing. It just, it creates a culture of many entrepreneurs within a, within a company of like, I can own this, I can make mistakes with it, but I can also learn and succeed with this. And that's all. I think any leader would want is people who take accountability can be innovative and self-reliant and to succeed. But with that, be comfortable with the idea that you will have some hard chats and you will have points that there will be people messing up and that's cool.

Jackie - 00:28:52:

I love that. A culture of many entrepreneurs. That's what we all want. I love that. Love that.

Jamie - 00:28:58:

A hundred percent.

Jackie - 00:29:00:

Jamie, what has been the most rewarding aspect of your work as an LGBTQ plus activist and entrepreneur?

Jamie - 00:29:08:

Most rewarding. I think that I can wake up every day and genuinely feel like I make a difference to the world. And I mean, I know that's a very millennial thing to say of like, we want to change the world. And I think the difference maybe with my answer is that I'm very conscious that I'm not going to change the world, but I can change my world or make my world bigger. And I think that's the bit that excites me. And the fact that I can keep hiring people and keep supporting companies to basically just create a world where it's okay to not look or not be a straight white man. That's all I do every day. And I'm excited to wake up and do that tomorrow and the day after. And I think that's the most rewarding thing for me is I can wake up and change my world every day and make that bigger and better.

Jackie - 00:30:02:

You know, Jamie, the thing that sometimes we don't give credit for is the ripple effect. So even in our small community or in our business, if you're changing the environment there, that reaches families and communities. And so many people that you don't even realize are touched by the work that you're doing. And so that's so important. I love that. What are your future goals for Monumental and Pride Edinburgh? Are there any new initiatives or projects that you're excited about that are upcoming?

Jamie - 00:30:36:

Always is the answer to that. There's always new projects and new things coming with me. I actually spoke to my team the other day and I was like, I can't wait to the point that I can afford to have what I would call a special projects team. Because my team always rolls their eyes when I come in because I'm like, guys. Drop everything you're doing. I've had 27 ideas overnight that I want to implement in the next 32 minutes. And they're like, oh God, Jamie, not again. So I can't wait to the point that I have a team that I can just offload my ideas. But until that day comes, with Monumental, it's just a continued growth. I think the cool and exciting thing is that I have, in the last three months, been able to kind of build the full narrative of the impact of diversity marketing. And I've spent months researching and pulling data together. And now I have a down to a T. And I delivered it as a keynote last week, and it went really well. And I'm going to deliver it again next week. And I'm really, really excited in getting that out in the world. Because yeah, it takes away this whole thing of like, it's a cute thing to do for the gays. And it's actually more of like, this is going to change the world. And I'm super excited. So that's on the Monumental front. On the Pride front, continued growth as well. I want to create. We've basically become oversubscribed. And there was one year we had 9,000 people waiting in a queue to get in because we hit capacity. So I need to grow that somehow. And yeah, so I think the general vibe is growth and better communicating the impact that engaging authentically with diverse communities can have. And really, I think the way that we word it, it's the commercial impact of diversity, basically. Everybody loves a number and everybody loves to make money. So let's put money onto it and actually show the real impact that our communities can make to businesses.

Jackie - 00:32:34:

How do you envision, Jamie, the landscape of inclusive marketing changing over the next decade?

Jamie - 00:32:40:

Well, I think as I said, it's... It's no longer a nice to have. It is mainstream marketing. And the way that platforms are moving, they have taken away this whole, let me target. 44-year-olds in Kansas City that like dogs. It's changed completely into just completely interest-based marketing. So regardless of where you are, if you have an interest in a topic, and it can be super niche, it can be the niche of a niche of a niche of a niche, you're going to be served content, regardless of how old you are, where you are, if you're gay, if you're religious or not, or whatever, just because you align yourself to that topic. So what that means for companies is that you can't do the, I'll get the white girls to target the white girls, because you don't know who's going to see that content, because it's based on a topic, which means that integrating diversity into marketing is a must, because that content is going to reach diverse groups of people, regardless. The difference will be, if your content is not diverse, you're going to miss out on a huge percentage of people. If we look at just the LGBT community just in the UK, their spending power is 186 billion per year. And that's a lot of money to miss out on. So the minute you put numbers through it, and we have all the stats of like... Who sees diverse content, how they engage with it. We know that the top performing content of last year was from diverse creators. It outperformed everyone but only 22% of all content out there was actually created by diverse creators. So there's this huge gap and we know it performs well. And so, yeah, sorry, I get very excited about this. But basically, it's going to be the norm. And if you're not in it, you're definitely going to fail.

Jackie - 00:34:31:

That's so true. So true. Jamie, what advice would you give to young activists and entrepreneurs who are passionate about making a difference in their communities?

Jamie - 00:34:42:

I think my advice would just be to start kind of small and with a clear purpose. I think a lot of people want to, as I said, want to change the world. Obviously, it doesn't happen that way. You can impact the people around you who's going to, as you say, there's that ripple effect of that impact. So yeah, my advice would just be start small and start with changes that feel manageable, to put it in kind of consulting terms, like what is the smart goal with this? And is it realistic? And I think from there, you can then build and I think that's really been the key to my success is I started with my little campaign, with my little following, and I kind of just grew it and stayed consistent and stayed committed to the cause and found different ways of doing it through building my business, through building my personal brand, and kind of grown it organically from there. But I've never sort of bitten off more than I can chew or, well, I did. That's why I burnt out. But that's from a business point of view. But I kind of always stayed really true to the cause and kind of built it organically. I think that's the key to success when it comes to activism.

Jackie - 00:35:54:

That's great advice. Thank you for that. Jamie, what message do you want to leave our listeners with today?

Jamie - 00:36:01:

I think my message would just be around the diversity marketing thing of like, Educate yourself, be authentic, look to the community that you want to reach and engage with them first. Make them part of your journey and see how that can impact things. So don't do a campaign if you don't have that representation in-house or through an agency that can actually influence how it's delivered and bring the right nuances in and ensure that it's not going to be tokenistic, that it will be authentic and hit the right mark and if you want to see how it's done wrong, plenty of examples online, start with Budweiser and work your way down. But yeah, I think that would be my key bit of advice and message to leave people on.

Jackie - 00:36:46:

Love that. And then Jamie, how can listeners learn more about your work?

Jamie - 00:36:52:

Well, Jackie, I'm not hard to find. So if you just put my name into Google, I come up. It's just Jamie Love. I'm on all the platforms. It's just Mr. Jamie Love. And if you want to learn more about Monumental, it's monumentalmarketing.co.uk. I set up the company when I couldn't afford a shorter domain and it stayed that way. And we love it. It's fine.

Jackie - 00:37:13:

I love that. I love that. Jamie, thank you so much. This has been such an important conversation and one that leaders all over need to really listen to because, you know, our society is changing. We're becoming more diverse and they want to keep those businesses thriving. They're going to have to make sure that they're engaging their consumer base in a different way. So thank you so much. I appreciate your time.

Jamie - 00:37:40:

Thanks for having me, Jackie.

Jackie - 00:37:46:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity Beyond the Checkbox. If you loved this show, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, YouTube, and TikTok. Or subscribe to our newsletter at beyondthecheckbox.com. This show is part of the Living Corporate Network, sponsored by the Diversity Movement, and edited and produced by EarFluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.