Trier Bryant’s Flight into Diversity and Inclusion Leadership

Jackie - 00:00:10:

Welcome to season 10 of Diversity Beyond the Checkbox, proudly presented by the Diversity Movement and part of the Living Corporate Network. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, author, business leader, and human rights advocate. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the stories of trailblazers, game changers, and glass ceiling breakers who share insights and professional success and personal development. Thank you for being part of this amazing community. Enjoy the show. Thanks for tuning in to Diversity Beyond the Checkbox podcast. My guest today is Trier Bryant, a people-first leadership and inclusion executive and the founder of TrierBryant.com. Trier, thank you so much for being here today.

Trier - 00:00:56:

Jackie, thanks for having me. I'm so excited to just be in conversation with you.

Jackie - 00:01:01:

Me too. We have talked before and I was so excited about what we're able to bring to our audience. So I'm really excited about getting into all of the questions I have. Where I want to start, Trier, is, you know, you've worked with some really well-known organizations, Goldman Sachs, Twitter. But you first served in the Air Force Academy. Will you tell us about your journey to doing what you're doing today?

Jackie - 00:01:29:

Yeah, absolutely. I did attend the United States Air Force Academy for my undergrad education, and it wasn't by design. I don't come from a military family. I'm the first person in my family to serve. Even though I was born and raised in Europe, a lot of people think that I'm a quote unquote military brat, but I'm not. My parents were civilians there. And I got recruited to play volleyball. That's why I went there. I didn't know about the Academy. You know, my mom, I'm pretty sure that she thought at the time bin Laden was right in the woods of Colorado Springs and they were going to send us off to find him. Like, just not coming from that background or that life. It was an interesting four years. I say it was the hardest four years of my life, but I'm appreciative that I got through it. I also say that not having started my family yet, so I don't have kids. I just have 21 nieces and nephews.

Trier - 00:02:24:

Wow, that's a lot.

Jackie - 00:02:26:

I know, I know.

Trier - 00:02:27:

You have a lot of chosen family,

Trier - 00:02:29:

And everyone has kids, so I'm that auntie. But I'm very appreciative for my experience at the Air Force Academy, but more importantly, in the United States Air Force. I spent seven years active duty. I'm technically a combat disabled veteran. And I say that because there's research that shows that a lot of women that have served in our military, they see it as something that they've done previously and they don't talk about it versus men who have served lead with that. And so I do my best to lead with it, even though I do have discomfort with that. But it was such a pivotal point in my life that really allowed me to have the foundation. To do what I have done professionally.

Trier - 00:03:10:

That's amazing. Now, Trier, after your four years, you stayed with the Air Force Academy. Is that right? Tell us about that.

Trier - 00:03:21:

I was at the Academy for four years, and then I was an officer. I was technically a cybersecurity officer doing cyber defense for the United States Air Force. And I did that along with helping with other diversity, equity, and inclusion leadership initiatives. For my alma mater, the Air Force Academy, for the Air Force, and then also for the Department of Defense. So I did that for seven years. So that was, you know, everything from, I've literally stepped foot on every Air Force installation, you know, hands-on in their network and keeping it secure from adversaries on the outside and making sure that the mission can move forward when it comes to the technology and the communication, but also doing a lot of diversity and inclusion efforts back at the Air Force Academy. How do we have more representation with cadets? With all the service academies being the largest feeder of officers into the military corps, if you don't have women or Asian or Black, Hispanic, if you don't have representation in the cadet corps midshipmen at the Naval Academy and cadets at West Point, then you lose an opportunity to have representation in our officer corps leading our military.

Trier - 00:04:31:

That's so interesting. And Trier, you said your family didn't serve. They were, right? And so how do you decide, I'm going to go into the Air Force Academy? Now, certainly the volleyball played a factor, but I'm sure that there were other schools to choose from. So what made you make that really tough decision?

Jackie - 00:04:55:

Jackie, there were, you know, I mean, if I... There was one path where, you know, I was going to go play volleyball at Duke. I was going to play volleyball, not go to class. Mary J.J. Riddick, shout out to J.J. I get the same class if I'm aging myself there. And... That was going to be great. And honestly, you know, there was a level of professional immaturity that I had that at that point in my life, when people told me I couldn't do something, I had to prove them wrong. I had to say, yes, I can and go and prove it to them. And so I remember I had teachers in high school that placed bets that one, I wouldn't get into the academy because I wasn't smart enough. Two, that if I did, I wouldn't make it through basic training because of my mouth. I got that from my mother and my grandfather. Thank you. It runs in the family. And so I got into the academy and I actually timed it, Jackie, that I could have gone to the academy, gone to basic training over the summer and still made it on time for preseason at Duke. But I did it. I ended up staying at the academy. I did make it through basic training. And that was really... How I spent most of my military career. It was like, oh, you won't make it through basic training, you won't make it through your freshman year, you won't graduate. And I remember a lot of my military mentors and sponsors. Knew this story. And so when I told people I was going to get out of the military, I remember one of my military mentors, a general in the Air Force, she said, well, I bet you won't make general. And I said, ma'am, I bet you I will, but I'm not going to spend the next 20 years proving it to you or anyone else. And that was a really big step for me because when I was in the military, You don't, there's a privilege of autonomy and choice that you don't realize that you're missing. That in the civilian sector outside of the military you have. When you get an assignment from the Air Force, it's not like you get to say, I don't want to go to Illinois in the middle of nowhere. I don't want to go to Minot. I don't want to go over. I don't want to do what you're telling me to do. You don't have that choice. And that's a privilege and it's a luxury. And so I don't take that for granted when I got out of the military. And that had a lot to do with, the pivots that I took because if I found myself unhappy, if I found myself wanting to do more, if I wanted more, I knew how to communicate and articulate that. And then if it wasn't given to me, then I was going to go and find it. But I'm not going to go without anymore. And that was a lesson that I'm appreciative that I took from the Air Force. And that I still hold true and carry with me now.

Trier - 00:07:29:

That's amazing. And Trier, based on our first conversation and what I'm hearing again, right? Where does that gumption come from? Because whether it's being in Air Force Academy or working with Goldman Sachs and the... Capacity that you did. Twitter and the capacity that you did. How do you make these jumps and take on these? Really big roles that so many of us are afraid of. Without, you know, do you, do you, are you not scared or do you do it scared? How, how does that work for you?

Trier - 00:08:05:

You know, Jackie, when you asked me that before I sat with that. But my first reaction was, why not? And And I think that I... I'm very fortunate and blessed that I have surrounded myself with people and I come from a family that... Oftentimes the answer is why not? And, you know, my mother instilled with me, think big, then think bigger. And my grandfather is a huge influence in my life, and we call him Sampa. That's his name. And he recently passed. But he has this, he had this. And I have it at my desk now, but he has this sign that's very important in our family. It says, good enough isn't. And it was always behind his bar. And that's like our family motto. Good enough isn't. It was like, why not? And, you know, good enough isn't. Think big, think bigger. And I think that's something that I probably don't see in myself that others do. And I've sat with that a while. But to say that I did it without fear, absolutely not. Let's be honest. We all have fears. One of my favorite books, John C. Maxwell, Failing Forward. I read that very, very young. I read that when I was at the Academy. And, you know, if you turn your failures into stepping stones, it's very powerful in how to do that. And does it eliminate the fear? No. But it changes. You have a paradigm shift. It changes your perspective on it, on what can come out of failure. But I'm also a risk taker. But I take calculated risks. And I ask very good questions. And I also think that. You know, we all have ego. But I think it's important that I can control where my ego shows up. And I put a lot of effort to not allow my ego to show up at work. I'm not going to be the smartest person in the room. I don't want to be the smartest person in the room. And if I've hired my team and built my team correctly, I'm not going to be the smartest person on my team. And when people say, well, how do you do it? That's how I do it. I don't have to have the answers. But as a leader, which you're taught to be in the Air Force and coming from the Air Force Academy, you know, I don't have to be a subject matter expert. I just have to build the team, lead the team, and empower and motivate that team to get the job done.

Jackie - 00:10:25:

I love that. And, you know, we'll get into mentorship and sponsorship in a minute, but, you know, I think it's so important to bring that to the fore and talk to your two about how we, most of us, right? Especially when we're, you know, in our twenties, coming out of college, feeling like we have to have it figured out. We can't make a mistake. Studies also show that women and culturally diverse individuals need to feel more qualified, closer to a hundred percent than others to apply for a job, right? That next role, that big role that they think they want to do, but they're like, no, you know, I've got to have everything that's on that list in my back pocket. And, you know, when you think about white men, you know, They feel like they have to be 60%. If they've got 60% of that, they're like, yeah, I've got the confidence to do this, right? It's so interesting because we don't take those risks that you're speaking about because we're afraid to fail. We're afraid to mess up. We think that it's a negative thing rather than a stepping stone, as you said. Talk a little more about that because there's so many of us, and I mentioned coming out of college, but those of us in our 30s, 40s, 50s that are afraid to take that step. What do we need to think about in order to... Round up the courage, right, to apply for that next job or to ask for that promotion or to take on that big project at work.

Trier - 00:12:07:

Yeah, great question. I think one of the things that I tell a lot of my friends and my mentees... You can have anything, Jackie, but you can't have everything. And there's a difference. And I tell people, you can have anything, but you can't have everything. And so if you can have anything, then what is it that you want? And it's okay for us to change our minds. So when you're in a role or what's next, what do you want? Do you want money? Do you want challenge? Do you want scope? Do you want impact? Do you want flexibility? Do you want to hide? Like there's a lot of things that you may want, but being honest with ourselves, what do you want? Because you can have anything and then go get that, but you can't have everything. And people will say, well, I want, and then they'll name 20 things. That's great. But what are the top three things that you want? And then go and make that happen. And if you hold this bar, or if you're looking at a job description, like I look at a job description, right? To me, a job description is not what I need to bring to the table or what I have, it is what I can do. And so if there's something technical in there.I can hire someone for that check, right? It lets me know what needs to get done. But specifically as a leader, at that level where you're building a team. I don't look for everything in a relationship or a friendship, so I don't know why these workplaces think they're going to find everything in me. That's not how I look at it. But what I do understand is— I have to be able to figure it out. So I will look at that job description and say, okay, you need these things. I know that I can handle these things. Got it. And these are these other things. I'm going to have to build a team that does that. Let me start thinking about. What talent fills that gap? What will I need to do to go and find it or create it? And I'm a builder, so I can build. And scaling is fun. Maintaining, I think there's builders, scalers, and maintainers. Maintaining is boring to me, but we need people to do it. So I'm looking for opportunities to come and build or scale. And I prefer to scale than build, but I can build. But I think it's really one being honest about what you're looking for. You can have anything, but you can't have everything. And then going and creating a plan and figuring it out, putting pen to paper. I think a lot of times, you know, Kerry Washington, she tells this great story about how, you know, you have to pray for the bus, but you also have to run like hell for the bus. Because if you pray for the bus and you miss it, you may not know if that was your bus or not. But if you prayed for the bus and you run like hell and you didn't catch the bus, that wasn't your bus and that's okay. And I think there's a lot of conversations about manifestation. I think it's powerful. And my friend and I, one of my chosen sisters, we always talk about we are powerful manifestors. And we take that very seriously because sometimes my mind can go astray. And I'll be like, you know what? I did think about that a couple weeks ago, Tria. You better be careful. But manifestation is powerful, but I don't manifest and then just sit. And wait. I manifest, I pray, and I also run like hell and do what I have to do. Because if that's my bus, I want to make sure that I catch it.

Trier - 00:15:20:

I love that. And that's one of the... The things I think so many of us don't do, we're waiting for the thing to come to us. And it very often does not. It doesn't. I love that.

Jackie - 00:15:34:

And we limit ourselves. There's a great HBR article, and it talks about... I've oftentimes felt difficulty explaining my career because they're like, oh, it's not a traditional career path. But there's a really great HBR article that talks about having a career portfolio. And I love that perspective because I don't have a career path. It's not a trajectory. It's a portfolio. And the reason that I've been afforded the opportunity to have that. Is because I've left myself open to opportunities. Everything that I have done. There was a version of it that I thought about that I wrote about, but what actually happened was way bigger than I even could have imagined. But I left room for that. It wasn't like, this is the next role. This is the next step. One thing about me and my reputation is if you want something done, give it to Trier. She's not always going to have the answer, but she will get it done and she will find someone who does. Can you imagine? Meeting me. I mean, like, girl, I don't know what your expertise is, but I know you can get things done, so here, come solve this problem. And when you think about it from that perspective, my career makes so much sense. But you actually peel it back and it's like, oh, that person hired you because they wanted you to solve that problem. Now, did I do all these other things? And was there a title associated, whatever? Yes. But I was afforded that opportunity or got presented that opportunity because oftentimes, almost every time it was about a problem. And it was like, yeah, there's all this other stuff that you're going to do too.

Trier - 00:17:00:

Sure.

Jackie - 00:17:01:

But come solve this problem because we haven't had anyone that can do that. Or come fix this. Come build this. Come start this.

Trier - 00:17:08:

I love that. And I really like career portfolio because it allows you the space to change your mind, right? A lot of, and I mentioned this, but-

Trier - 00:17:18:

And we are allowed to change our minds.

Jackie - 00:17:20:

That's right. And a lot of, especially folks coming out of college think, this is what I majored in. I need to do this by this time. And then this is the next step. And you can move around. You can decide to do something different. You can evolve into something that you didn't expect and fall in love with doing this thing or that thing, which is not what you thought you would be doing at 22, right? And I love career portfolio. I think that's- a great way to think about your... Career path. But also giving space to try new things and see how you can grow. That's not in that very straight line that we think we need.

Jackie - 00:18:09:

I love that. And I think I also got. Really interesting. I got guidance from a mentor when I got out of the military. And they said, Trier, follow your passion, be an expert in your passion, and the money will come. And I've said that to other people and they're like, well, that's not true. Like I'm an artist, I'm a painter and this and that. I can't say it's true for everyone, but I do hold that in my foundation that my passion, my values, what I believe. Are anchors in my purpose, I always hold that to be true in every role. And for me, number one, in the words of Issa Rae, I'm rooting for everybody Black. I'm rooting for everybody Black. I'm going to make sure that it is better than I left it. We are going to take care. I'm rooting for women. I'm rooting for historically marginalized communities. I'm rooting for those that I know what it feels like to be. Othered, in the minority group. And that does not mean that I don't want the majority group, and oftentimes that's a cis white straight male, that doesn't mean that I want them to have less. And that's something that oftentimes people don't understand in the conversation of inclusion or diversity or equity. We can be equitable and we can all have that experience. We're not taking away from anyone else.

Trier - 00:19:40:

That's right.

Trier - 00:19:42:

But that also means that I am leaning in hard. I am leaning in hard, but that also means that I'm very, you know, I've had leaders. I remember I took over this chief people officer role and the CEO came to me about three months later and was like, Trier. You know, you're like the diversity person. Where's our diversity strategy? I figured you would have hired someone. And I said, well, two things. One, when it's done right, it's embedded in everything we do. So we're not going to have a standalone strategy and I'm not going to hire a person. Do I think there's organizations that need that because it's a bridge too far to cross? Absolutely. But because I know how to embed it in the entire employee lifecycle, you're not going to see a standalone strategy. And trust me, we've done things that have taken care of it, right? Talk about the whole compensation rehaul that we did in our first 30 days. But the other thing that I said is number two. Our majority group is not having a positive experience in your company right now. I'm concerned about the experience that our cis straight white men are having. And the CEO was Asian. And he said, really? He was like, I didn't think you would be concerned with that. I said, I'm very concerned with that. Because when they're having a negative experience. Everyone else is suffering. Everyone else is suffering. When your majority group is suffering, I was like, we don't need to bring anyone else into this organization until we get some things right. We don't need to bring people into an organization where they are surviving and we are not giving them the opportunity and environment to thrive. The other population that I look at, because who's on the other end of that, are Black women. The majority group, and again, in the US, I'm talking about... Predominantly cis straight white men. That's the top, that's the high bar. And the lowest bar are typically Black women. And then you've got everyone in between.

Jackie - 00:21:30:

And yeah, I agree with you, Trier. A lot of times, and people do think, if I give over here, something's being taken away from me. And that's not the case. The more we are inclusive, the more we are using DEI as a strategy for creating the culture that we want, creating more employee engagement, which creates more profitability for our organizations. The more we have space for promotions and new lines of business and things that make the pie bigger. So you're not having to give away your pie. The pie is bigger and there's pie for everyone, right? And so I think that's one of the things that people don't realize. So I appreciate your bringing that up. Trier, I think, you know, when I think about... Your career portfolio, right? And you taking on those big jobs in new industries, new roles, right? One of the things that underpins your success is your mentorship and sponsorship. Tell us a little bit about that. First, can we start with the difference between coaching, mentorship, and sponsorship? And then let's talk about the benefits of those.

Trier - 00:22:48:

Yeah. I've heard a lot of people, but this is just how I talk about it. And it's, and specifically in my life, to me, coaching is day-to-day. It can be technical, but it doesn't matter. It could be a manager. It could be a peer. But it is someone that you're going to, and it's like specific questions, and they're giving you. It's like the way you think about a coach when you're playing sports. Like you're practicing. You've got the game, but they're giving you that coaching. Day-to-day and it's somewhat, to me, it's like a little bit more technical. And specific. A mentor is someone that you're going to have a conversation for advice, for guidance, and there's usually a prompt, a question that you're seeking. And you can have lots of mentors. One of the things that I learned when I got out of the military is in the military, the question is, how many mentors do you have? And when I got out of the military, it seemed like people were just asking, do you have a mentor? And that was very strange to me because— It is obvious and it is a given that in the military you have a mentor, but the question is how many mentors do you have? And do you have the right mentors? It's one of those questions that I ask CEOs. I won't work for a CEO that doesn't have mentors. I think that's a red flag. Because we all need someone to go and, you know, who are we going to be a thought partner with? And that's to me a mentor. It's a thought partner. It's like, hey, I'm thinking about this. What are your thoughts? Going back and forth, having a dialogue. But someone who is going to be honest. And I think that there's three types of mentors. And, you know, one of my mentors in the military taught me this. She was a woman, a black and Asian woman. And she said, Trier, I cannot be your everything. You have got to find more people. And she was like, you have to find people that, one, that are technical experts. You need mentors that are technical experts. Two, you need mentors that have been there because success leaves clues. So wherever it is you want to be, you don't need to reinvent the wheel, but success leaves clues. Find those people, work backwards, and they can give you the guidance. Because if they got there, you sure as hell can get there too. And then the third one I think is really powerful is that you need mentors that look like you and share the identities that you share. Because, Jackie, when I go to a man. And I go, I think that this board wasn't listening to me because I'm a woman. And they may say, well, no, that's not right. Or I may not listen to them because they're not a man. And I'm going to say, hey, you can't relate. But Jackie, I come to you and I'm like, I was in this board meeting and I really struggled getting people to hear me and to speak on my platform. You're going to be like, yes, that's happened to me. And this is how you overcome that, right? And so whether that's your gender, your race, ethnicity, it could be religion. It could be socioeconomic. Maybe your background of like, you went to college. You didn't go to college. You came from financial services and now you're in healthcare. Like, it doesn't matter. But understanding that people can bring those experiences to their counsel to you. And then there's sponsorship. And sponsorship to me is very different because You don't have to know who your sponsors are. You just need to know that they're out there. I've been in organizations, particularly in the military and at Goldman, where I may not have known whom all my sponsors were, but I know they existed. And sponsors are the ones that, one, need to know where you want to go and what you want, and two, are going to be in spaces that they can advocate for you with that information and that you're not there. You're not in those rooms. You either don't have access to those rooms yet, or it's not your industry or your space. And I'm very grateful. I show gratitude to sponsors because I don't always know who they are, but I know they're out there working. And oftentimes, my greatest sponsors came from my mentors sharing to people who could be sponsors. I don't need to know who they are, but if you tell me, that's fine. I have relationships with some sponsors, but like I said, a lot of them, I don't know who they are. But I know they are out there working on my behalf. And so that is the difference. And I think they're all very, very important. And then the thing that I will drop in on top of that is when you have a paid relationship through like executive coaching, which can be coaching as well. And so I'm at the point in my career where it's like, I'm either always working with a therapist or I'm always working with an exec coach. And sometimes I'm working with both or I have multiple coaches and I have multiple therapies working with different things. But I think coaching is very powerful. I want to share how I got into coaching. My mom, she was working with an executive coach. I was still in the military. I was a captain in the military at the time. And- She got a certain amount of hours of coaching every quarter. And she gave me a couple of those hours. And she asked her coach if that was okay. And I got to meet with her executive coach. And that was really helpful. Prior to getting into the civilian sector when I left. But my mom kind of taught me that framework. So then when I went to Goldman, I would ask senior people at Goldman, the partners and the managing directors get coaches. And I remember asking my managing director like, hey, do you think you'd offer a couple of your hours for the quarter for me? I'd like to work with a coach. You know, like I don't have the money. And he shared that with his coach and his coach offered to work with me pro bono without taking hours from them. And then there was another one of my friends that she had a coach. She was running a nonprofit and a lot of coaches will do pro bono work with nonprofit leaders. And she offered to work with me for free. So I was at Goldman working with two coaches and I wasn't paying them again because I voiced that it was something that I wanted and it made it happen. But that coach and that was. Almost 11 years ago. I work with her now still. At every organization, I go and I ask, will they pay for coaching? And if they pay, We pay her. And if they don't, then I pay out of pocket at a lesser price, but we make it work. And so I think that's really about just giving relationships and understanding that like, hey, you took care of me. And so like, as I have. Increased my salary, my earning potential, and also working for these companies where I can make that ask as an executive and taking care of her. And it's a beautiful relationship. That's so great. So what I'm hearing, Trier, you know, for so many of us. It's, well, I don't have a sponsor. I don't have a mentor. Go get it.

Jackie - 00:29:13:

You have to want, right. You have to ask and advocate for yourself. And with regard to your sponsors, you have to share your goals. If they don't know what those goals are, they can't advocate for you in those rooms that you're not in. That's absolutely right. Go get it. And here's the other thing is that we over-engineer mentorship outside of the military. I don't ask people to be my mentor. I'm not going to come and be like. Jackie, will you be my mentor? You know, so my thing is that if I come to you more than once with a question and you give sound reason and advice that helped me, you are in my pocket. There's probably people that I consider them a mentor and they don't consider me a mentee. And that's fine. I don't care. You are mine. Okay. I am going to like, and I think that there are people that feel that way with me. And I don't think it needs to be this over-engineered thing. I think also, you know, I know senior folks that are like, oh, I just don't have capacity to take anyone else on. Yeah. That's fair, but I appreciate people. You know, one of my favorite mentees in our relationship has grown and evolved. She appreciated my time. And so what she would do is, MLK weekend every year was hers. She would get on a plane no matter where I was, and she would get on a plane and come and spend the long weekend. And she, throughout the year, would have this list of questions. And we would spend the whole weekend just talking and eating, and she would ask her questions. Now, every now and then, she'd be like, hey, I got something time-sensitive. I can't wait until our MLK weekend. But the other thing that she did is she would bring people with her. I have been in lots of different places where she's like, Tria, I'm bringing two people. I'm bringing one person. I'm bringing my best friend. Or have someone jump on a FaceTime when we're talking about something of, hey, so-and-so needs to hear this. And I think that that's the power of just sharing insight and finding different ways that she's like, I know you're busy and I know you give yourself on a lot of people. And she was like, but my ask is one weekend a year. I just want you for like two days. I'm like, sure. And she cooks. So like, it's a win-win for both of us, right? That's fantastic. Trier. You're a member of an organization called Black Women on Boards. We know that organizations with boards that are gender and culturally diverse perform better than homogenous boards. But, you know, it's still a struggle with black women in particular to get those board seats. What advice do you have for securing a board position? Yeah. So shout out to black women on boards, but I also want to shout out Athena. Athena SPAC, that's actually how I was introduced to them. And that has allowed me to sit on my first, to have my first public board seat. And I'm very grateful that this was my entry point into sitting on a board. I'm 39 years old. I actually technically joined the board when I was 37. So I was a 37 year old black woman that was sitting on the board of a publicly traded company via the SPAC. That was one of those moments where, you know, I could acknowledge, I was like, I'm not there yet. I can't be value add, but I absolutely can. But by doing this, I'm able to, and I sit on the audit committee, which I was always fearful of because I just knew what the audit committee on like my company's boards that I've worked at and the finance committee and the audit committee, like those are hard boards, right? Those are hard committees to be a part of. And I'm like, I'm not there yet. I can't be value add. I can't be value add. But I'm learning so much. I'm learning the questions to ask. I'm learning to read a 10K. I'm learning about the next time, like I am going to come in guns blazing because of this experience where I'm sitting on the committee with people that know that are very real. And I'm honest, right? I don't know. I want to be helpful. But I'm taking notes. And I'm, you know, but like, I love my biggest compliment is when I'm on a committee meeting and they're like, Trina, that's a great question. You know, I'm getting there, right? I'm being value-add to them. But I think it's okay that you have these moments of learning. And Athena heard about Black Women on Boards, and they actually paid for all of the Black women that were a part of Athena. Two, they sponsored our membership for Black Women on Boards. And what I appreciate about the organization is Black Women on Boards. I showed a picture to my friend and she was like, wow, I didn't realize so many black women are on boards. And I go, all these women are not on boards. Yes, there are Black women who are on boards, but it's also a cohort of women that are board ready or helping them to get board ready and help them with their first board position or even to continue to get additional board seats. Phenomenal women. Like humbling to be in their presence. Understanding that this is another area, I believe so strongly, on the shoulders that we stand on and the legacy and powerful. They speak and the wisdom that comes out and the experiences that they've had that— also give you a sense of relief that it's not you. This is systemic. This is the environment. And they can do it, but I can too. But they've worked really hard to make it that much easier for me. And I'm working that much hard that it's going to be a little bit easier for those that come behind us. They have programming. They get special access to events. You know, they recently just did a film that was at Tribeca Film Festival last year. And I think it's about the education, the community, the investment. But also to be in community with women at that level where... It is lonely at the top. And so there's a different degree of I feel excited when someone has an ask because you know that you'll have an ask and they'll be able to give it right back to you because these are truly women in positions of power with influence and can really move mountains and get things done. That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Now, Trier, as an investor, what do entrepreneurs need to know about securing capital for? That's another area where underrepresented professionals, underrepresented entrepreneurs are not getting. Capital at the same clip and black women in particular the last study which was done several years ago that i saw was for every thousand dollars of venture capital a black woman only gets a few cents of that two to three cents That's right. So one, I have a challenging relationship with the word entrepreneur. I think that it's overused because everyone wants to be an entrepreneur now. That's true. I go to a gym down the street and there's a wonderful young man who works at the front desk. And my goal is every time I see him, I go, every time I see you, I'm going to give you a resource. And he just absorbs everything. And he was like, I want to be an entrepreneur. And I go, this is not to say that there aren't 22-year-old or younger entrepreneurs. And I go, but I think that there's this. Fascination and this hype around being an entrepreneur. I don't call myself an entrepreneur. I never wanted to be an entrepreneur. That wasn't a goal of mine. And entrepreneurship is hard, and we don't talk about that. Running your own company, starting your own company is hard. And I put a lot of responsibility on myself. As a chief people officer, I'm already responsible for payroll. I've been responsible for payroll. But being responsible for payroll when it's someone else's money and bottom line, where I can go to the chief revenue officer and the finance team and be like, hey, make sure that we got the money so that I can run. My team can run the payroll, right? But when you're responsible for that and it's people's livelihoods. That's a lot of responsibility. And Jackie, there was a recent stat that I heard about from Ryan, who's the founder of a company, an organization called The Gathering Spot. That has virtual and are you familiar with the Gathering Spot? No, I haven't heard of it. Yeah, the Gathering Spot. They have physical locations in Atlanta and I think L.A. Or another place. But he said that we talk too much about in the Black community about having companies, but we need to start talking about scaling companies because 94% of Black-owned companies do not have any employees. Mm-hmm. That's right. 94. So that's like the LLC mafia, right? It's the LLC mafia that's like, I got a company. I'm a CEO. I'm a CEO. And that's great. But like, if you're not actually creating roles, like what are you actually, what is your, like thinking about the ecosystem and the economy, right? How do we get those, create those jobs where. Black professionals, all professionals, can grow their careers and grow in their professional lives in Black-owned organizations. And so that stands out to me. And so, yes, I've started companies. But what I'm more proud of is that I've started companies where I've been able to hire and have headcount, right, and have people on payroll, whether that's in a full-time role or part-time role. And so what do people need to know about fundraising and entrepreneurship? Well, one, when someone—I feel—it was interesting when I was out in the Bay Area, right? Out in the Bay, if you are starting a business, it's a startup. And you're going to go get VC funding. But if you're in a community that is so far removed from that, it's just a small business. But also, when I started my first company, Jackie, there were people that were throwing checks at me, and they were like, Trier, I want to invest. Trier, I want to invest. I didn't need the money. I bootstrapped. I did it. And I've always, you know, I haven't really been in the red since I started it, but I also don't have a lot of overhead, right? It's consulting. I don't have brick and mortar. I don't have a product. We get our clients, the check clears, we do the work, you know? And so I think it is being realistic on, do you need to be a VC backed company or not? Do you really need to go fundraise? Also, there's a lot of great, you know, MailChimp, I think is the most recent example of their exit and how they bootstrapped and they didn't take VC funding and that story and how the numbers fell with that, right? So I think it's really understanding like what type of a company do you need to be? And then when you go and you're fundraising, listen, there's a lot of resources out there, but I think the biggest gaps that I see when I see people pitch is they have not done their market research. There are so many times that people will pitch me. I don't know if it's because I'm a VC, but I think it's because I'm a VC. They're in a formal pitch or just something. And I go, oh, this sounds like X. And I think that when you're not in tech, you're not always hearing about those ideas. But when you are, it's like, oh, someone's been working on that or someone is working on that. And if you're not familiar with the market and competitor intel and what's happening, it makes it look, if you didn't do that little bit of effort, it's just a huge red flag that like what's really behind there. And I don't think that you need to do it alone. And I think that it is hard. It's hard to be a founder. It's hard to go raise money. I also want to say though, that there's an organization called Black Women VC and it's Black Women VC and we need more, we need more Black and Brown people that are writing checks. To make money and not just to support other black and brown people. And I get it. I, I, I, I too want to support black and brown founders. But the thing about raising a fund is you have to go and convince these LPs, these limited partners. To give you a check for your fund so that you as a general partner, a GP, can go write that check and make them money. At the end of the day, it's about making money. And what I tell people is that if we know that black and brown founders and women are getting less money, they're getting less support. It's harder for them to see a return. I mean, it's going to be harder for you to make a return. And so for me, they're like, well, if again, I'm rooting for everyone black. I'm rooting for everybody that's black. So, you know, I'm going to do my part.

Jackie - 00:41:38:

Right.

Jackie - 00:41:40:

But I have to show that I am a strong investor first so that I can get more checks, raise more funds, and then down the road, right? Be more intentional to the community or to underrepresented groups. But right now, I got to go make LPs money. I have to do that first, and then that will give me way more leverage in the future. And so while I do put my capital aside when it comes to angel investing is very different. But as a VC, my funds right now are going to be focused. On the highest return. And if they happen to be an underrepresented founder, awesome. Am I looking for them? Yes. But I'm looking to make my LPs money because I still am in a place where even as an investor, like, I got to prove my track record. Sure. You know?

Trier - 00:42:34:

Absolutely. And you know, Trier, when you started talking about it, you talked about not liking the word entrepreneurship. I think entrepreneurship has been highly romanticized and social media does not help, right? Because you see one picture and they started a company in their garage and the next picture they're driving a Porsche, right? And so there's no pictures in between of them sitting up at night trying to figure out how they're going to make payroll and having an issue with hiring in a specific position that's costing them money and all of those things that keep those founders up at night and with real stress. I mean,

Jackie - 00:43:21:

that's right.

Trier - 00:43:21:

Like you said, making payroll when it falls to you. I mean, I didn't know what that felt like until starting the diversity. And it's, it's. It's stressful.

Jackie - 00:43:34:

It's a lot.

Jackie - 00:43:34:

It is.

Trier - 00:43:35:

And, you know, I haphazardly fell into it. It wasn't by design. I mean, my first company that I started, shout out to, you know, one of my very close friends, April Rain. She's the creator of hashtag OscarsSoWhite. And I remember, you know, we were just catching up on the phone and I was telling her about some stuff that I was doing. And, you know, there's a lot of overlap professionally because she does a lot within, like, Hollywood in front and behind the camera when it comes to inclusion and diversity. And I was telling her about some VCs that I was helping. And she was like, girl, slavery is over. We do not work for free. You need to start sending an invoice. And I was like, no. I would do this for free. Like, I love this. Like, we got to get it right. And she was like, no, you need to send an invoice. And Jackie, I remember the first invoice I sent to a VC for $5,000. Like, I just casually slipped it into an email. And they paid it. And I was shocked. No questions asked. They paid it. I was shocked. And that was literally how my first company started. And then I was like, well, I know that I need to like, you know, from like tax implications and stuff like that, like I need to go and create a company. And then when I got smart on that and I was like, this is something that needs to be done right. And one of the best moves that I made is I went and got an accountant. And I have that accountant now. Shout out to Lori. She is fantastic. And she was the type that has been able to grow with me. She's been the CFO of one of my companies. And, you know, and she handles everything. And she structured it. And she knows LLC versus S Corp and this and that and what I've needed for the different organizations that, you know, that we've done. And that was how I haphazardly fell into entrepreneurship until it grew and scaled and was like, I need more people and I need more people full time. And what does that mean? You know? So it wasn't something that I was on my vision board or that I wanted. I never. Quite frankly. I would love, like, if someone came in and just kind of – I would love for someone to come be the CEO of Tree Air Bryant and, like, just – Put engagements on my calendar and handle everything else. Like, it's just, I think I might also just be past that in my career of, like, wanting. To build and go eat what you kill and to have that vision. But honestly, Jackie, I'm also in a space where I don't want to do anything except for... Live my best, soft, gentle life. So that could also be part of it as well. I love it. I love it.

Jackie - 00:46:09:

Trier Bryant, as we begin to wrap up, tell us a little more about TriaBryant.com and how people can get in touch with you. Tell us about some of the leaders and organizations that you work with.

Trier - 00:46:20:

Yeah. So it's funny because TriaBryant.com, I'm about to rebrand, but my first organization that I started was actually called Pathfinder. Two years ago when I took on the. The role as president of 82nd Street Venture Studios to go and... Raise a fund, a biotech fund, and to run a venture studio. And for those of you who are not familiar with a venture studio model, venture studios are basically VCs, but they only write checks to companies that they create. So you have a studio. So I had a team of about 30 people. And we would build companies. And then when they got to the point where it was like, hey, we're at the point where we can write a precedency check and then eventually series A check. So we're not looking at all these other biotech companies, just the companies that we're building and finding people to come in and build them. And that was really exciting because, you know, I'm a builder. I like to have that, the control of the talent and the science, which I didn't know the science, but everyone on my team had a PhD except for myself and my chief of staff. And they were brilliant. So, but when I did that, I wanted to rebrand Pathfinder because I was getting a lot of outreach from companies that needed larger scale, that wanted larger scale projects. And I didn't have the capacity. And I didn't have the capacity to have the team as well. And so I rebranded as TrierBryant.com, thinking like if you think it's one individual, even though I do have a small team behind me. And now that I do have capacity to do this a little bit more, we're about to rebrand again. And so we are going to go back to Pathfinder and then I'll probably just keep TrierBryant.com just for my own kind of branding. But high level, we are a boutique consulting firm and we do people, HR, advisory services and diversity, equity, inclusion consulting. And the thing is that I've been doing this for over, I mean, since 2018. I mean, I've been doing the work for over 18 years, but since 2018 in a formal capacity of having a company. And so we've worked. We've worked with organizations like Google, Airbnb, you know, SAP. We've done a TED video. We've had clients like Equinox, YouTube, Lattice, Gusto, the Ministry of Justice in Canada, Atlassian, Alto, if you get your prescriptions from there, eBay. So a lot of different organizations, public, private across different industries. But what I say is that, you know, we help organizations to take care of their people so their people can take care of the mission. And that is what they said in the military. And there's a lot. There's always room for growth there. And so it can be projects across the entire employee lifecycle, helping how you hire, how you promote, how you, you know, training and development, pay to, you know, diversity, equity and inclusion. Like I've had clients where I'm their interim chief people officer. I'm their interim chief diversity officer. You know, where the team. Comes in and does inclusive leadership training. You know, we're working with a client right now where everyone in their C-suite minus two is going through a four part segment of inclusive leadership so that their leaders can be more inclusive. So that's what we work with organizations and leaders on. We also do coaching one on one with leaders. And it's great. And what I appreciate, Jackie, is that we're at the point I'm at the point with my team. We've never done like real business development outbound. And so we're not doing that. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. We're not doing that. So like a leader leaves an organization. They go to another organization. They're like, well, what we did there. We're about to do it here. Right. It's like, great. But we are not interested in working with organizations that are just trying to do window dressing or leaders that are just trying to check a box. And so the fact that we get to lean into that and, you know, do our diligence in the beginning to say. This doesn't really look like the right opportunity for us. Like this seems to be very reactive. I'm sure you already know the type of phone calls that we get like, oh, this happened. And so we need to. Have someone come in and do a seminar so that you know, this sexual harassment doesn't happen anymore. And it's like, that's not how this works. It's way deeper than that.

Jackie - 00:50:49:

That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that. Such important work and work that leaders sometimes really need some support with. So I love that. trierbryant.com. Please go check out the site. Engage with Trigger. On your needs around DEI, around leadership development and coaching. Trier, thank you so much for being with us today. This has been such a great conversation. I love the empowerment. I love the passion. And it's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much.

Jackie - 00:51:21:

Thank you for having me, Jackie. I appreciate it.

Jackie - 00:51:30:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity Beyond the Checkbox. If you loved this show, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, YouTube, and TikTok. Or subscribe to our newsletter at beyondthecheckbox.com. This show is part of the Living Corporate Network, sponsored by the the Diversity Movement, and edited and produced by Earfluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.