Trouble Doesn’t Last: Incarceration to Advocacy w/Doris Bullock

Doris - 00:00:10:

Welcome to Season 10 of Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox , proudly presented by The Diversity Movement and part of the Living Corporate Network. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, author, business leader, and human rights advocate. In this podcast, we're diving deep into the stories of trailblazers, game changers, and glass ceiling breakers who share insights and professional success and personal development. Thank you for being part of this amazing community. Enjoy the show. You're listening to Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. My guest today is Dr. Doris Bullock, Interim Chief Program Officer at Arise Collective. Doris, thank you so much for being here.

Jackie - 00:00:54:

Thank you, Jackie, for having me.

Doris - 00:00:57:

I'm so excited about this conversation. Let's start, Doris, with your current work. Tell us a little bit about Arise and what you do as chief program officer.

Jackie - 00:01:07:

Thank you so much. I am currently the Interim Chief Program Officer at Arise Collective, as you just shared. And in that road is actually threefold. But before I tell you about the role, let me tell you a little bit more about Arise Collective. It is a nonprofit located in Raleigh, North Carolina. Formerly Interfaith Prison Ministry for Women. That focus primarily on women who are incarcerated and post-incarcerated. Our mission is to provide the resources and support that women will need to heal, grow, and thrive. During and post incarceration. So we work around providing. Those reentry support services that are so needed. Housing, transportation, case management. Family support, all of those things are needed for women to successfully transition back into in which they will return it someday.

Doris - 00:02:00:

Absolutely. And Doris, tell us what your job involves.

Jackie - 00:02:04:

So as the interim chief program officer is threefold. So the first fold is. It is around reentry. And working collaboratively and hands-on with the reentry team, which is composed of a re- Women's Reentry Program Director. A senior case manager and a care coordinator. And also a part-time chaplain. Who works in the prison as well as with the Arise Collective. But working with them to help build a robust program structure. To provide the programs that women will need to successfully transition back into the community. That's one vote. The second vote is around outreach. Out in the community, building relationships, renewing relationships, developing new relationships. Building partnerships and doing outreach in the community. To share who we are and what we do at Arise Collective. To support women returning to the communities from incarceration. And the third boat is our reentry higher education initiative. It is a partnership with Campbell University. Whereby we were so fortunate to receive funding. From the anonymous trust, and that is the name, the anonymous trust, to be able to provide the opportunity for women. In our program to go back to school and work towards achieving. The associate degree in General education or behavior science through Campbell University, an amazing and excellent partnership. That provides the opportunity for women to matriculate for the two years and receive the associate's degree, and then they can go on and receive the bachelor's degree. We're happy and elated. Yes, December 2024, our first cohort of students will graduate. And so we're absolutely elated. And really happy about the partnership with Campbell University and it's absolutely amazing. And so that is the work as the interim chief program officer and just supporting the CEO. And all of the efforts around the work that we do at Arise Collective and sharing who we are as an organization and the work that we do to support the women and partnering. With other organizations in the community doing reentry work as well.

Doris - 00:04:22:

That sounds like a big job and amazing work that you're doing. I got involved with Arise on the board after a lunch that you and I had where you shared with me your personal story. Can you tell us a little bit about your story, Doris, and why you have a personal connection to this work?

Jackie - 00:04:43:

Absolutely, Jackie. So one of the first things I will say is that I am so glad that trouble don't last always. And I don't look like what I've been through. In the words of Marvin Sapp, I made it through. In spite of the storm and the rain, heartache and pain. If you see me cry, it's just a sign that I'm alive. I got some scars. But in spite of calamity, He still has a plan for me and is working for my good. And so when you hear my story and when people tell their story, I often tell folks. You're the author of your story and don't let anybody else hold your pen as you write your story. Because nobody can tell your story better than you can. And that makes sense to me, right? And so as a baby boomer, born in rural eastern North Carolina. And I'll say the name and some of the listeners may have never heard of it. But now that you hear it from me. Please go and look it up. A little small Eastern town in North Carolina called Enfield. E-N- F-I-E-L-D. There's also an Enfield, Connecticut, I believe. But it's Enfield. But born to... Parents who had an eighth grade and a 10th grade education. My mom. Had a 10th grade and my dad had an eighth grade education. And even though They were not educated in the public schools. They were educated in the Bible. And they wanted my siblings and I, five of us, to have more opportunities than they did. And so they always instilled in us to go to school, to continue to school and, you know, get educated. Because that's how you. Make change in the world. And even though they were farmers and care croppers. Sharecroppers, they didn't have the opportunity to do that for other reasons. And so one of the other pieces they instilled in us was Philippians 4:13, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me, which is my go-to scripture all the time. And so of those four, five children, I am the baby girl. And, um, I always say I'm my daddy's girl, and I am. And when most 18 and 19 year olds are going off to college. I was going off to prison. I was going off to prison where I had been charged with a crime against my infant child. For second-degree murder, for the accidental death. And subsequently, pled guilty. To that because my parents did not have the wherewithal or the finances to be able to obtain an attorney. And so I had a state-appointed attorney who said to me, You should plead guilty, and I did, and in some ways I felt as though I was guilty. And I was sentenced to life in prison with the possibility of parole in 20 years. And that was at the young age of 18 turned 19 the same year. And-

Doris - 00:07:57:

Doris, before we go on, I just want to stop right there because that's such an important piece. You're so young. And you had a baby that died. And I'm so sorry for that. And-

Jackie - 00:08:13:

Thank you.

Doris - 00:08:15:

You were in a situation where you didn't have the means to get an expensive attorney. You are getting advice of appointed counsel, which is an issue with so many of us, right? And why there's some of the inequity, and there are many reasons there is inequity in our justice system. But that's one of the reasons. And so without good counsel. And you're heartbroken, you're traumatized by this event in your life. And again, so young, like you haven't even started to experience life yet. And, you pled guilty because you felt like that was the only option. And so I just want to make that point and stop there for that because. You know, That would not have been the case if you had an attorney that your family was able to pay for or you weren't experiencing this extreme trauma. Right. And so please continue. But I wanted to just stop and point that out because it's it's so important to go into the story. And that's the reason why so many individuals who are incarcerated are incarcerated.

Jackie - 00:09:39:

Absolutely, Jackie, and you're so absolutely right. Because the counsel itself in terms of being able to afford it. With my parents having the work life that they had, there was just no way that they could afford it. And if that you have that public council and they say to you that the best thing for you to do, you know, and you always said, just always tell the truth, just tell the truth. And you think the truth will. Actually do the right thing for you, and they did not. And I was a high school dropout. And so I was going to prison now. I didn't have the education that my parents had. Instilled even though they didn't have it for us to do. But That was the situation. And so here I go off to prison at that age. And thinking that I'm doing the right thing. Because my attorney told me that was what would happen. And, that's just not the case. And so I'm now off to prison. As a high school dropout and I was Um, in jail for about six months. And then I was shipped off to maximum security prison. Where I was in maximum security for two years. Before I was able to go out, with the general public. And then I was issued my State ID number, which is 708626. And that's what I was known as, for the next 10 and a half, years. And so from 1981 to 1991. I was incarcerated. And has so much family support. During that time, from start to finish, Family never wavered. They were there. They were constant. We did know that, um, it was. To some degree, at some point, something would change. And so the faith that I had, people say, well, how did you make it through? And it's because of the faith that I had in the family support. What so often individuals do not have and that is so critical. In terms of being successful. And you've got to stay focused on what it is you want long-term because it's just in the moment that the things are happening. And those things could certainly change. And so. Once I was released into the general public, I had the opportunity to enroll in the GED program at Wake Technical Community College. Because that's one of the things that the state system allows you to do and they want you to get an education. And so I did that. But I had Jackie. These angels that God just placed around me that I had no idea about. And so they said, the best thing for you to do is you need to go back to school. And that's what I did. I went back to school. I got my GED. And there was opportunities for me to continue some of that education.

Doris - 00:12:46:

That's amazing. Now, Doris, when I introduced you to the podcast, I said, Dr. Doris, tell me how you get from being released from prison to being Dr. Doris Bullock.

Jackie - 00:13:00:

So I had some amazing mentors and I think we'll talk about them as well. But one of the things I always loved is I love school. I love school, and I remember the teachings from my parents is that education is the best way. To get through anything. And I often read books and I would, Think about Nelson Mandela, who was incarcerated. And one of the things he said is that The best way that you can fight injustice is, is to educate yourself, right? And so during my time incarcerated, I was thinking about him. His incarceration and that I want to go back to school. And so, couple of my mentors said, that's exactly what you need to do. So at that time, Shaw University. Which is my undergraduate alma mater for both of my undergraduate degrees. Had a program called Center for Alternative Programs of Education Inside the Prison Case. And because I had obtained my GED, I was able to apply and enroll. In the program to pursue my associate's degree and, I did. And I got an associate's degree while incarcerated. And then once completed, I pursued through to. The bachelor's degree. Through Shaw University as well, however, At this time, I finished post-release. Because I was released after 10 and a half years. And Remember, I was not supposed to be even considered. Until 20 years, possibility, right? But you know, The parole board said, why is this child still here? And they of course want people released. They don't want to hold up space and so. I was one of the people that they met with and then I got released through MAPP. MAPP, which is Mutual Agreement Parole Plan. Between you, the individual, and the parole board. And the rest is history. And that was over 33 years ago. And so once I was released and I was working now on work release at my alma mater, Shaw University. On work release and the vice president for academic affairs office. And had been doing so for almost two years. When they knew that I was going to be released, they went to the president. At that time, it was Dr. Talbot O'Shaugh. And said, I want to hire her. And lo and behold, I got hired. I never had to complete an application. And that's where my higher education background comes from. That's where it stemmed from. That's where it started from. And so I'm forever indebted and grateful to Shaw University. For having set the foundation. And so I then complete my bachelor's, I'm outside of prison now, I am working, I am doing well. And I said, one of mt mentors, you need to go back to school and get a master's degree. And then you need to go and get a doctor's degree, and I thought, oh my God, I haven't even finished a bachelor's degree yet. What are they talking about? A master's and a doctor. Both of these mentors were earned doctors. One of them. Um, first African-American male PhD from North Carolina State. But they knew what they were talking about and I didn't know. And so I said, okay. So I went back to school and I got a master's degree. And that was in 2014. And then... I still had in my head and now all of this time, I have all of this. Higher education background. Because I worked at Shaw, I worked at Saint Augustine’s University for 14 years. Now I have all of this degree and. I keep hearing them in the back of my mind saying, you need to go back to school and get a doctorate degree. And so I then had the bold audacity. To go to school and earn. A doctorate degree in educational leadership. High Point University. In May of 2020. And my dissertation research. Personal, and passionate for me. And purposeful work. Incarceration and the impact of educational rehabilitation on retinopathy.

Doris - 00:17:15:

That's awesome.

Jackie - 00:17:16:

Yes.

Doris - 00:17:18:

So you earned your EdD. And then what, Doris? What did you do after that?

Jackie - 00:17:24:

And so after I did that. I accepted a job. So I graduated in May of 2020. In the pandemic. I completed the three years of coursework in intensive and intensive. Very outstanding program. So. Birth to defend the isoma. In the pandemic. And defended successfully on April the 15th, 2020. And it was done. I did not get the opportunity to graduate until the following year due to the pandemic, but also during the pandemic. I had the awesome opportunity to go and be the Associate Vice President for Student Success at Edward Waters University in Jacksonville, Florida. And I did that. Um, And then I returned home in January of 2022. Because my mother was ill. And still is, but I needed to be closer to her, and then I needed to, also come back home and be with my husband at that time. And so... After that, I have served on the board for Interfaith Prison Ministry for women, which was... Which formerly Arise Collective, had served on the board. And so when the CEO. Was having conversations with Campbell University and the Anonymous Trust around the Reentry Higher Education Initiative. They needed someone to spearhead the education initiative. And who better to do that? Than somebody who have lived experience around the work. And has a passion for the women. And for reentry. And firsthand experience, right? And so. We made the decision that I would step down off the board and spearhead. This initiative and that's what I did. And I am loving it. It's an amazing opportunity. To be able to work with women to help them see their full potential.

Doris - 00:19:37:

Absolutely. That's so amazing. And to have someone that is an inspiration, right? Because it's one thing for someone else to say, you know, you can do it. But for someone to lead the way and shine that light on the path, I think that's so amazing that you're able to do that and inspire so many.

Jackie - 00:20:00:

Thank you.

Doris - 00:20:01:

Doris, as we all do, you needed people in your life to believe in you and help you get where you are today. And you've shared a little bit about that process and that path. Can you tell us a little bit about those mentors and what they've meant to you over the years?

Jackie - 00:20:19:

Absolutely. It was amazing to have individuals who invested in me and including in those individuals was the late Dr. Robert Earl Powell. Dr. McLouis Clayton, Mrs. Mildred Hooker. Dr. Quiffy Scott Jr. And Dr. Diane Bordelais-Suver, who helped shape me into the person I am today. And supported me throughout my collegiate. Higher education experience. And I'm very thankful and grateful to all of them.

Doris - 00:20:49:

That's so amazing, Doris. Thank you for sharing that. You know, it's important that we think about who in our lives we can pour into, pour love into, pour encouragement into, speak words of affirmation. You never know how much that can mean to someone. And that can light a spark to change someone's life. So thank you for sharing that. Doris, what do you wish more people knew about justice-involved individuals?

Jackie - 00:21:23:

That is such a great question because I tell folk all the time, Being in prison does not... Only mean barbed wire. That will cut you. Heavy metal, locked doors and armed guards. Being in prison also means that you can be in prison in life, friends, associates, classmates, family, yes, family. In your job. Employees, supervisors, staff, colleagues. In your sororities or fraternities. Or community organizations, sisterhood, brotherhood, memberships, in your marriage. Your spouse, your partner, your significant other. In your church, pastors, yes, pastors, ministers, trustees, deacons, deaconess members, all these will cut you like the barbed wire. Keep the heavy metal doors locked. Where no one can get to you. Because of the armed guards. You get the point. I was determined to turn my adversity in the triumph. And that's what I say to people about, just as evolved individual. If you're in one of those situations and you're not locked up behind barbed wire and overseen by armed guards, think help. Let folk help you. Let anybody help you. But for the population of women and men who are incarcerated, they are going to be released one day. And what I want people to know is that, as a community. I ask that you embrace individuals, because, if we were all in a way, let's just say everybody who have without saying, cast the first stone. That's all of us. And so we need the support of the community, we need the support of families. We need the support of strangers. And if there are people in our communities that are returning, that need resources and help if we're unable to do it ourselves. Then connect them with the resource. To be able to successfully transition back into the community healthy. If we know that there are individuals that not only have justice envolvement, but also have some mental health issues, provide some resources and support. Don't shine. Help us to help them be successful, like people help me to be successful. Call me. I will help them.

Doris - 00:24:35:

I love that Doris. I love the comparison to where you can be in prison at any point in your life. You don't have to be behind bars to be in a prison in your relationships and in your situation. And, you know, the thing that. Has always moved me is how close any of us could be. To a situation that puts us in prison. It could be one relationship. It could be one encounter. It could be one point of being, you know, so many of us have been at the wrong place at the wrong time and it just didn't go as bad as it could. Right. But, you know, and then so many people who experience incarceration have experienced a trauma early in life. And that's not their responsibility or control. That's something that has happened to them. And so, you know, any of us are so close. To being in that position ourselves. And so, my next question, Doris, is why is this work all our responsibility, not just for those that are incarcerated and people that work with people that are incarcerated, but it's everyone's responsibility. It's the community's responsibility. Talk to us about that, Doris, if you will.

Jackie - 00:26:08:

Absolutely, it really is what you said, Jackie, it is the responsibility of the community. And as a community, we want healthy people in our community with want to work what we do, speak for ourselves, right? But we want to help people that need help. And if we are living in a community, then our responsibility for us, is to be able to help those who can't help themselves. And so, as I shared earlier, if in fact, you don't have the resources to be able to support the individual, just connect them with an individual that does. If you have some biases around people who have been incarcerated, then you yourself do not have to deal with that individual, but just get someone to connect with that individual. So share their information with somebody that you know. You can shoot me an email. You can call me. I'm happy to leave my contact information. And I will be able to connect with that person. Now, Arise Collective focus is primarily womern, that's what I'm focus is. However, we have partners, that work with men and with women. And so we have organizations. Community Success Initiative. One of those, our journey. We have a plethora, a plethora of resources. That we're able to connect individuals for, with. So if you're in a community of folk. And you don't feel like you want to dabble, put your hands in, contact me and let me do the work for you. And I'm happy to be. And so it's so important for community, to be involved in returning citizens and this whole reentry, the reentry landscape. Is so open, there used to be an opportunity in times where individuals felt uncomfortable in checking the box. We have moved from that and not all applicants should now have that where, you have to check that box. And so, the leniency around reentry and being able to help individuals get back on their feet is so necessary to get them reconnected with family. And just think if you yourself wanted three people, has someone they know, if not a close family member. Who's been in the criminal justice system. One way or another, or more. And so I just ask that we work together as a community. To be able to be responsible to the needs of individuals who need us most. Those vulnerable populations of individuals. Who may not necessarily have the resources and have the opportunity. At a second chance. If not, us who gives them the opportunity to have a second chance as a community.

Doris - 00:29:00:

Absolutely, Doris. And you know, the thing that people sometimes forget is the families of people who are incarcerated or being released from prison. What about the children, right? You want those people to return to their families and be able to find gainful employment, be able to rent an apartment or buy a home, et cetera. If you're not providing, if we're not providing that opportunity as a community, it makes it harder for them to remain with their families and build the life that they really want. And so it's so important. I totally agree with you, Doris. It's all our responsibility and we all need to do that work.

Jackie - 00:29:51:

Absolutely.

Doris - 00:29:52:

Doris, share with me a success story of someone who has partnered with you in the Arise program.

Jackie - 00:30:01:

There are so many, Jackie, but the one I will share that I am so absolutely elated about. So, when we first started this Re-enter Higher Education Initiative, I mean, if you think about me as an example. And one of the beauties of the work that I do. I'm happy that I'm able to have that experience. It's because I'm able to say to the ladies, I know. I've been there. If I can do it, so can you. And I will be here with you from infancy to completion. That means, from birth, until the end. Right? And so when I started the recruitment for this initiative, I was going around speaking to all of the women and they had shown interest. And so I had this interest meeting. And I was talking to them about the opportunity to be in the program. And one of the ladies said to me when we were all done, she was just looking at me really strange the entire time that I was talking. And when we were done, I said, okay, tell me your feedback. What are you thinking? What are you feeling? Give me a pulse. And she looked at me and she said. Dr. Doris, I hear what you're saying. She said, but this is not for me. She said, I wanted to go to school. I did. She said, and it sounded attractive when you said it. And it still does. She said, but. It's just not for me. And I said, well, tell me what's coming up. You know, what is it that? You came to the meeting so, you did have interest. Tell me what's coming up now. And she said, all of the stuff that you're saying. She said, I just don't think it's for me. What about this? That you think is not for you. And she said, you just don't know. I've been out of school a really long time and I've been incarcerated a really long time. And I just don't think even though I want to, that's it, let's do this. I understand. And I totally respect that. I said, but let's do this. If you will. Would you allow me to just, work with you, and let us just try it. And if it does not work, then I'll say, okay, we tried it, but let's just not throw in the towel anymore. Actually giving it a try. And I hear all the things you're saying. And again. As a reiteration, I'm going to be here from start to finish. And she said, I just don't know. She said, but okay. You sound like you're warming up your words. She said, okay. And I said, and here's the beauty of this. I just told you all that I was a high school dropout. I got a GED. And now I have. Yeah, you did. Yeah. Right, remember. So you said, she said, okay. This is sad story, Jackie. She enrolled. She will graduate in December of 2024. With her associate's degree. But the beauty of it is this, she has maintained a 4.0 grade point average every semester. She received a scholarship for her academic achievement. She is on the president's list where she received. The presidential letter from the president, President Creed himself. She is killing it. And she wanted to throw in the towel. Because they're so accustomed. To people not believing in them. And thinking that they can do it. And all they need is a Dr. Powell and a Dr. Clay, and a Dr. Doris. That's all they need. So that's the work that we do at Arise, supporting women. Having a passion for the work. It's not just the, get up and come to work. It's the passion around the work. Because this purposeful. And if work that needs doing. And if not me, who?

Doris - 00:33:56:

Mm-hmm. Thank you for that, Doris. Doris, how can people learn more about Arise Collective and get involved?

Jackie - 00:34:07:

You can learn more through the website. Which is www.arise-collective.org. You can email me directly. At dbullock@arise-collective.org And once you go to the website, there is information there that will tell you all about who we are, what we're doing. But there is three other events I want to highlight before we go. One of the ways that you can get involved, one of the biggest pieces for us is funding. And so we're always looking for opportunities, what individuals to you know, contribute financially if they're able to, or just look at the work that we're doing. And one of those events is we have a spring campaign going on right now, and it is called Thrive. As I talked about earlier, our mission is to provide the tools and resources necessary for women to heal, grow, and thrive. Both in the communities that they will return. And so our spring campaign is Thrive. Also in August, I... Specifically along with another board member, Reverend Bernadine Anthony, are doing what we call a party for a purpose. And she and I did it last year. It was phenomenal. We're doing it again this year. On August the 10th, I have the information. I'm happy to share that. It's another fundraising event. And all of the fundraising that we do go towards the support of the women. And then finally, our huge annual fundraiser, which is called for celebration. Which is in October, of this year and it's actually on October the 5th. So any one of those three events, you can certainly get engaged in as well. But email me. Email.

Doris - 00:35:58:

That's amazing, Doris. Thank you so much, Doris, for sharing your story, for talking to us about Arise and how we can be better stewards of our communities through this work. Thank you so much.

Jackie - 00:36:13:

Thank you so much. Jackie, I so appreciate it.

Doris - 00:36:20:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. If you loved this show, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, X, YouTube, and TikTok. Or subscribe to our newsletter at beyondthecheckbox.com. This show is part of the Living Corporate Network, sponsored by The Diversity Movement and edited and produced by Earfluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.