Uncovering Belonging: Navigating Identity at Work with Josh Miller

Jackie - 00:00:10:

You're listening to the Diversity Beyond the Checkbox Podcast brought to you by the Diversity Movement. I'm your host, Jackie Ferguson, author, speaker, and human rights advocate. On this show, I'm talking to trailblazers, game changers, and glass ceiling breakers who share their inspiring stories and insights on business, inclusion, and personal development. Thank you for downloading this episode. I am truly grateful for you. Enjoy the show. Thank you for joining us on Diversity Beyond the Checkbox podcast. I'm joined by Josh Miller, queer changemaker, public speaker, photographer, outdoor explorer. And award-winning entrepreneur. Tash, thank you so much for being here.

Josh - 00:00:59:

Thanks for having me, Jack. I'm excited for our conversation today.

Jackie - 00:01:02:

Me too. Josh, can we start by talking about your journey of self-discovery and what you call uncovering?

Josh - 00:01:10:

So I'll start by defining covering as a topic, because that directly ties into it. So I define covering as downplaying, hiding, or filtering parts of ourselves at work with different social groups, at school, and with family. And I got really interested in the topic of covering when I learned about it, because it gave me language to name an experience that I had been through as a queer professional. I'm the co-founder of a nonprofit that my husband, Theo Edmonds, and I co-founded together a decade ago called Ideas X Lab. And we were based in Louisville, Kentucky. And so I had a lot of fear around, how could I show up in the workspace as a professional, as a queer person? Could I present in the way that I wanted? And would people still be willing to work with us? Would people still be willing to fund us? Would communities collaborate with us? And so that was both internal messaging, things I had learned over years and years, and also there was external messaging about what the expectations were, what I was supposed to be. And so my journey to uncover, to bring forward those parts of myself, really came at a place where I was doing a mental inventory. As we were doing our work, and I was finding myself really depleted and not feeling as connected to people as I could be, and feeling really stretched thin, kind of on the edge of burnout, and started to recognize that a lot of the contributing factors to that were the parts of myself that I was covering, and not bringing with me into my personal relationships, into the workspace because of that fear. And so my journey of self-discovery has really been taking an internal inventory of how do I want to present, and how do I want to move through the world, and what are the parts of me that I want to be able to share and to express that give me a sense of belonging, that let me lead in the way that I can lead, and innovate in a way, the way that I can innovate, and to build relationships. And so that's been kind of the internal process that I've worked through from a covering perspective that shaped who I am now and how I'm presenting.

Jackie - 00:03:24:

Thank you for sharing that. You know, one of the things that people don't realize is so many of us of all demographics have experienced covering in the workplace and in our personal environments. Josh, from your perspective, why do we put these walls up? Why do we feel we need to put these walls up?

Josh - 00:03:43:

I think there's a lot of reasons for that. And over the past few years, I've done a variety of interviews and research. Deloitte put out a report called Uncovering Talent. And across all of their work, my work, and the work of others, you can see covering across all groups, straight white men, women of color, LGBTQ plus folks, people with disabilities and more. And I think there's a variety of reasons that that happens. People are thinking about their safety. They're thinking about in the back of your mind, you have these words, these thoughts of, oh, I'm supposed to be this, or I should be doing that. And that impacts how we show up. It could be the fear of being fired. It could be the cultural norms of groups we are a part of, and limiting mental models. And so if we can recognize all of those dynamics that are at play and recognize where that impacts us as individuals, that also gives us the opportunity to kind of rewire and to update that operating system a little bit.

Jackie - 00:04:45:

Absolutely. Let's talk about some of the impacts of covering on our physical and emotional well-being. Can you share some of those with us?

Josh - 00:04:56:

So as I've talked to people from corporate to higher ed to nonprofits to the political sphere, when I asked them to describe how covering impacted them, people often used words like it made them feel lonely, it made them feel isolated, stressed, depleted, exhausted and burned out. And so from a physical, emotional place, all of those types of things really impact. Our overall well-being, it can impact our sleep, it can impact our personal relationships. And as that trickles then into how we show up in the workplace, if we look at burnout, for example, Gallup did a poll and their estimate was that it costs employers a third of someone's salary annually if that employee is experiencing burnout. And so that just demonstrates while this has such an individual potential impact, physical and emotional, it also can cascade into the workplace in that way. I mentioned my journey to uncover earlier and for me, one of the ways that it impacted my well-being is that I was using unhealthy coping mechanisms to deal with covering. So for me, a lot of that was connected to drinking alcohol, large quantities of alcohol that started when I was in high school and it carried forward. And so as I was going through my self-discovery journey, I actually had to come to terms with the role that alcohol was playing as a contributor to that. And so I've now been sober for a number of years, which has been, that's been really helpful in that journey, but that just speaks to sometimes we don't even realize how interconnected the different facets of covering, coping and these well-being impacts are.

Jackie - 00:06:48:

Absolutely. Josh, during COVID, a lot of people, particularly underrepresented professionals, preferred working from home or at least hybrid work, not just for the flexibility, but for limiting microaggressions in the workplace. You know, some of professionals use the time to transition. Right, during COVID, what are your thoughts on the microaggressions in the workplace and how we as leaders can create spaces of belonging at work?

Josh - 00:07:21:

It's been really interesting to see. How people, you know, the intersection of how people evolve during COVID. You mentioned some of those things, like some people transitioned. Some people noticed, oh, wow, I'm not experiencing the feeling of having to code switch or cover. We're experiencing these daily microaggressions. On a daily basis because I'm not having to be there in person. Part of that really speaks to, what is the culture that we're creating and now really thinking about it in a hybrid way? We continue to see these calls of return to the office, return for five days or however many days. And I think that leaders who want to create spaces of belonging, one have to recognize As you are calling people back to return to the office, essentially you are calling back a new workforce. Whether or not it's connected to covering, people have been able to name their values differently. They have created entirely different work processes that work best for them. Think about like, if you have ADHD, if you have different things connected to how the environment impacts the way that you can work, even getting to like social stamina and your ability to engage with people in person and sensory noises. And so, it's not just we can all come back to the office and this is a reset of the table. And so what we need leaders to recognize is we're not going, I don't anticipate in my lifetime, having a reset like this. And you really have to take stock of the true change that happened. We have demonstrated that hybrid work models can be successful. But you have to put different supports in place to ensure that you have that sense of belonging and that people feel connected and empowered to do their work. And so I think it's that recognition of how many things truly change and knowing that your employees and your workforce can help to design a solution that works for everybody, that is going to be the thing that gives us. That next phase, that next place in terms of sense of belonging.

Jackie - 00:09:33:

Absolutely. And you know, I love what you said that this wasn't just a temporary measure. To continue work during a pandemic. This is really a societal shift about how people want to work, what their expectations are around work, and personal wellness. And so leaders have to really take stock of that and determine. How they want to create and sustain those cultures of belonging. One, so that when people are in the office, they feel supported, they feel included. And safe. And then when they're working remotely. They still feel connected. Joshua, there are some tips that you can give us about how leaders can go about doing that.

Josh - 00:10:17:

One of the most important things from my perspective is that leaders need to do a self inventory. And actually be really introspective and honest with themselves. I would encourage the broader lens of, from a covering perspective, is covering something that I do, that I have experienced, how has that impacted me. If people aren't at that place, I would at a minimum say, over the past three years. What are the things about myself that have changed and evolved? What processes have I put in place? Recognizing those for you. And then developing the plan for how you're going to engage people in creating the system that's next. So I think for leaders, it's the inventory of change. As I asked people, and this was mid-2022, I reached out to some different folks in different corporate spaces to say, hey, I would be really interested as I'm seeing what has changed for me, what you all are seeing, like, did you put a different system in place? Have you changed your routine? How are you prioritizing health, social, emotional, all of these different facets while we're sitting in Zoom eight hours a day? Like, what's going on for you all? In most people. Said, I haven't actually stopped to think about that. I am just trying to push through or my kids running around or so many dynamics where I play. And so that for me is a huge component of recognizing the shift and the change internally. And as a leader, you have to model that you're willing to. Name what has changed. And also be willing to adapt your processes. One of the questions that I ask people a lot is, whose imagination are you working in? To get at some of the. Yes, it may have carried forward from the past, but who designed it? Were you in mind when they designed it? And then on the flip side of that, how do we imagine something different? And so I think some of those processes and questions helped to get us to that new place.

Jackie - 00:12:28:

Absolutely. And Josh, as we think about people who are going through the process of uncovering in many different ways, how can we as family members or friends or coworkers support people that are going through the process of uncovering?

Josh - 00:12:46:

I think one of the ways that we can really support people is to verbalize that. And recognize that we are all on a journey, the person I was yesterday is not who I am today, is not who I will be tomorrow. And I think that is similar for everyone. It may be small changes, it may be just one little experience that you consciously don't understand how it's impacted you yet, but the more that we are recognizing that the person you were five years ago, It isn't fair for me to hold you to still being that person from five years ago. And so it comes to us to say, I know that I am changing. I embrace that you are changing. I may want to ask questions. I may seek understanding. And I hope that it is heard from that place. But however, you're showing up. You know, I'm thankful that you're here. One of the things that COVID gave my siblings and I, I'm the oldest of five, we're all adults now. My youngest sister just graduated from grad school. She's a counselor. And we realized we had never had adult sibling time before. Wow. And so during COVID, we got an Airbnb and it had like a lot of outside space so we could do some fires and like be as COVID safe as we could. But that was a really impactful time to come together as people who are still trying to get to know each other. And one of the things that we kind of named is like, you don't have to apologize for asking a question that's difficult or that may seem personal. And we're naming that knowing we're coming from a place of, I want to know you and I want to know all the parts of you that you wanna share with me. And I may seek understanding about some of that. And I also respect your right not to answer right now. And so being able to name that for each other, whether that's family, whether that's friends, holding that space with each other in that way can be a really helpful process or approach for how to embrace those parts of people that they may be uncovering day to day.

Jackie - 00:14:55:

Absolutely. You know, I love that because you're right. We're all evolving all the time. I am personally approaching a big birthday in the next six months, and I'm finding that I'm changing the way I think about things and the way I view things and what's important to me. And so I love that you said that we're all evolving and we continue to in big ways and in small ways. And it can be difficult for some of us who have not had the language for these conversations to really open up beyond surface level. That's so much of what we're expected to do in the workplace or within our community and neighbors and things, but really. Taking time to dig a little deeper and get to know an individual on a human level, on a deeper level is so beautiful and I just love the language that you used. To start that conversation.

Josh - 00:15:53:

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Jackie - 00:15:55:

Josh, tell us a little about Josh Miller Ventures and Ideas xLab. Am I pronouncing that right?

Josh - 00:16:02:

You are. You dig it, right? A lot of people leave the X out. I'll start with Ideas X Lab. I mentioned it earlier. That's the nonprofit that I'm currently the co-founder and CEO of. And we use the art of storytelling and community collaboration to impact public health. That's looked a lot of different ways over the years. But primarily right now, our efforts are focused on Unknown Project, which is around unearthing and honoring the names and stories of black enslaved people from Kentucky and beyond. And that's been over the past few years. I leave that with Hannah Drake. And the other work we've been doing is with Louisville Metro Department of Public Health. And that's to use art and community engagement to create culturally responsive public health messaging. So centering community voices and community faces as a way to drive and improve public health outcomes. I'm an artist. I do photography. I'm a storyteller. And in undergrad, I actually switched from an art degree to art administration and business, because at that time, I didn't understand how artists, in a more expansive way, could use their skills to, one, make a living, but also, two, to really have this broader impact. And so that's what we're doing through Ideas X Lab. And then I launched Josh Miller Ventures. Early on in COVID and it's where I offer my public speaking like on the topic of covering and uncovering your value. It's where I've been creating wearable photos. So when I'm out exploring, running, hiking, skiing, I do take photos and when I'm traveling and then I print those on silk and chiffon. So it's a different way to celebrate the places we love and create interesting pieces that you can wear in a lot of different ways. So across those two efforts, takes up a good amount of my time but I really love getting to do this work.

Jackie - 00:17:57:

That's amazing. And Josh, tell us a little about some of the challenges that you often hear from organizational leaders as you're doing your speaking engagements. What are some of the struggles that they're having in leading organizations in an inclusive way that centers on belonging?

Josh - 00:18:16:

One that I hear often you named earlier, which is around language. So language is evolving so quickly. And there's also, more often in workspaces, I believe than in other places, but a fear about, oh, I'm supposed to know this. I don't want to offend someone by asking that they explain it or clarify. So language is one. And that's why when I had language around covering and what that was, that was such an empowering thing for me. So that's one piece. Two, I think that we've really segmented how we approach creating sense of belonging. Like what we talked about earlier, the intersection of, or the disruption that COVID gave us. And everything that was happening in the socio-political sphere. That wasn't just DEI within a corporation. That was a disruption across every system that existed.

Jackie - 00:19:17:

That's right.

Josh - 00:19:19:

And so rather than just thinking about sense of belonging as a DEIA conversation, Sense of belonging and inclusion is a foundational building block. For corporations to move forward. When I watch TikTok and I see Gen Z employees talking about. What they're wanting and expecting from workplaces, it is a rude awakening for people who are not willing to evolve and change and to think about what is the workforce in the 21st and 22nd century really need and want and how are we going to accommodate that. So I think those are two areas, a holistic approach to sense of belonging, just like we talked about with covering, it's something that impacts everybody. So it's not a segmented conversation. And then the language and being vulnerable and willing to learn and to grow and to adapt those mental models, those are some of the biggest pieces.

Jackie - 00:20:16:

You know, that's so well said because. A lot of times leaders, especially leaders from older generations thinking about Gen X, me, right? They had to have it all figured out and have the answers and never be wrong. Finding the courage to be vulnerable and learn and be wrong sometimes and have to apologize is a new paradigm for a lot of leaders, but one that's expected, right? From Gen Z, as you mentioned. They want to work with companies that align with their values. They want to work with companies that leaders are inclusive, and show that vulnerability. What's the advice, Josh, that you give to leaders that say, whoa, that's a lot, right? That's a big shift for me.

Josh - 00:21:10:

It is a big shift, and it can be a big shift. For the leaders who, maybe intimidated by that amount of vulnerability, by that amount of, Immediate change. One of the things I just spoke on a panel recently about a lot of similar topics and what does a new lens of leadership look like. If you, if it feels intimidating to say, we're going to announce this company wide. Find your brain trust. Find a few people that you can sit down with and start to hash through, here are the things I don't understand. What are the questions that we should be asking? What are the resources we should be looking at? And if it's four people, six people, create the container that allows you to make some progress mentally. So that you're starting to take these other considerations. And think about how they become applied within the broader corporate setting. So I'd say as a very small, you know, like tangible step, that finding a brain trust of people, a person who you can bounce some of the questions off with, and even using some of the language that I shared earlier, one of the things we talked about on the panel was. People like me who are making, I would say probably, I will assume for you, but that may be inaccurate, but I think we are stepping into these spaces saying, Our lived experiences have primed us to be here to talk about these things, and we're okay with sitting in the discomfort with you because we believe in what these conversations and what the growth from a mindset perspective will get us in the long term from a change, from a true foundational systemic change perspective. I am not thinking about, you know, yes it does make me uncomfortable. Variety of things that happen. I get misgendered all the time and that's an ongoing conversation with people but it's also that is a way that I am on this earth able to educate people to help them see the world in a broader lens. And I'm okay with that because I am hoping that the future Josh's and the future Jackie's get to step into a different world where they can take on far bigger challenges because we've squashed some of this. We've made progress. And so that's part of what's rewarding. And I think searching out people like us who are willing to engage and sit in those conversations with people is also really helpful.

Jackie - 00:23:45:

Absolutely. So well said, Josh. How do we combat the headwinds and momentum with DEI right now given the political landscape, the pushback that we're getting now, different from just a few years ago.

Josh - 00:24:03:

One of the reasons I so gravitated toward the topic of covering, and I know that I keep circling back to it. Is because it was represented across all groups. As we have sought to do DEIA work. It can feel at times. One or more groups are isolated. And so I feel like that is just a component of What is the entry point we're using to engage people in this work and how do they see themselves as a part in it? I also think helping people to understand how many different roles there are. You can be someone that is in the background doing really impactful DEIA work that no one sees. It isn't public. But there are ways where you can support people who are on the front lines and who are the face of DEIA for your corporation. 

Jackie – 00:25:05:

Absolutely. 

Josh – 00:25:06

That makes just as much of an impact. So, there is also a an expanding the way that people understand their role in it and what the roles can look like and how varied that is. I'm thinking about as there was, you know, for a known project, for example, Hannah is a black woman poet. I am a white queer person. We are coming at to that topic in such foundationally different ways and our roles in many instances are different. But the benefit is that We give people entry points into the project in very different ways, and we can support each other in being strategic, co-conspirators, if you will. For how to create this broad rippling effect across our networks. And so expanding the way that people see their role in DEIA work I believe is a part of how we continue to push it forward.

Jackie - 00:26:09:

Josh, I'd love that you said that. This isn't for someone else. This isn't about someone else. This includes all of us in the ways that we can contribute to environments of safety. And compassion and create welcoming spaces for our families and our friends and our coworkers. You know, that's so important. And we can get involved in the ways that start comfortable, right? And then we can work into being comfortable being uncomfortable, right? Which is also important. And I just really want to draw attention to that because sometimes it feels big and overwhelming and sometimes scary if you don't know how you can participate. But I love that in your work you give people. An entry point as you say. To go in and do the work and be helpful, be an ally and learn what that is, right? And so many of us, right, when we think about the word diversity, it's all of us. And some people do feel excluded based on a specific conversation. But as we think about, you know, again, our families and our friends and our colleagues, the work that we're doing and the environments that we create are for all of us.

Josh - 00:27:36:

Exactly.

Jackie - 00:27:38:

Josh, this has been such a great conversation. What is the message that you want to leave with our listeners today?

Josh - 00:27:46:

My call to action for listeners is to ask themselves the questions about covering. Have I covered? How has it impacted me? Have I contributed to places where other people may have felt they had to cover? I really think doing that introspective work and considering what does an uncovering movement look like for all of us. Is part of how we move this, move our collective works forward and how we really redefine what sense of belonging looks like.

Jackie - 00:28:23:

Definitely. And then how can listeners learn more about your work and get in touch with you?

Josh - 00:28:30:

They are welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn. They can go to my website, joshmiller.ventures. Those are the two best places to get in touch, watch videos from past talks, ask questions about covering. So I'd love to hear from people.

Jackie - 00:28:47:

Josh, thank you so much for taking time with me today. This has been such a great conversation and you've given us. So much incredible language to step in and do this good work. So thank you.

Josh - 00:29:00:

I appreciate that, Jackie. I've had a great time today.

Jackie - 00:29:08:

Thanks for listening to this episode of Diversity: Beyond the Checkbox. If you enjoy the podcast, please take a moment to share it with a friend, leave a rating and review, and subscribe so you'll be reminded when new episodes are released. Become a part of our community on Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, YouTube, and TikTok. This show is proudly part of the Living Corporate Network and was edited and produced by Earfluence. I'm Jackie Ferguson. Take care of yourself and each other.