Is Hiding Holding You Back? Step Into Your Power with Ruth Rathblott

Jackie Ferguson: Ruth Rathblott is back on diversity beyond the checkbox. We're catching up on her journey since releasing single-handedly. We're talking about her new book, her Powerful Time Op-Ed on Belonging and Disability, and her perspective on the future of DEI in today's shift in climate.

Today I am excited to welcome back a friend of the show, Ruth Rathblott, for those who may have missed our first conversation.

Ruth is a celebrated speaker, author, and inclusion advocate who has inspired audiences around the world with her personal story and her work around uncovering the idea of embracing what. Makes us different in all spaces. She's the author of two books single-handedly learning to unhide and embrace Connection and most recently unhide

and Seek. Live Your Best Life, do your best work. She has also shared her insights on disability and belonging in an op-ed published by Time Magazine, and she's a TEDx speaker as well. Ruth has been [00:01:00] continuing her mission to challenge perceptions and expand inclusion, so we'll catch up on what's next for her. And also get her take on the evolving DEI landscape here in the us.

Ruth, thank you so much for being on the show again.

Ruth Rathblott: Jackie, I am a huge fan of yours and all the work that you're doing, and I, so I'm excited to be here. And I remember the first time I read what your, um, what your. Podcast was about, and the idea of beyond the checkbox was so important to me because we do often think of it as a checkbox and, oh, what are we covering and, and what gets missing?

And so I felt so seen and so heard by you last time that I'm grateful to be back. So Thank you. 

Jackie Ferguson: Well, I'm excited to have you and to catch up. Ruth, for those who may not know your story, can you give us just a, a brief reminder of who you are and what led you to your work around uncovering and inclusion?

Ruth Rathblott: Yes. I was one of those people, Jackie, who [00:02:00] thought that I was gonna have one career in my life. And I always admired those women who had two or three careers, right, who pivoted and had different pieces, and I. I swore. And if you had asked me five years ago, what's your journey of your career, I would've said, I am a nonprofit leader.

I work with young people and provide access to college, act to college, and to career and mentoring. And then there was a conversation about diversity and leadership that I was part of while I was running an organization. And I asked a really naive question, Jackie, I asked, do you see me as diverse? And the answer back was not really.

Jackie Ferguson: Uhhuh, 

Ruth Rathblott: And for your listeners who maybe just on audio, I am a white female. I use she series pronouns. I'm heterosexual. I'm not who you typically think of when you think of diversity. I'm also white. And so that was a piece of [00:03:00] understanding diversity, conversation and language. And so when people said, oh, I don't see you that way.

I had to ask a follow-up question, which was, what about my disability? I was born with a limb difference, missing my left hand, and I, when I asked that question, what about disability? The answer back was, well, you're not really, you don't really have a disability. We don't see you that way, and it's not really part of the diversity conversation. That led me to getting really upset and I may have even talked with you about that before in terms of that caused me to, to leave that conversation and say, okay. How are we talking about DEI? What does that mean? And I feel excluded from the conversation and I was fortunate enough to have amazing corporate partners who were telling me what was showing up in DEI and disability was missing in the beginning from the conversation and sometimes still is.

Um, and we'll get into that, I'm sure. [00:04:00] And that led me to do a TEDx talk and because part of. Part of why it was upsetting is because I actually hadn't talked about my disability with anyone. I hadn't shared my journey of disability, so as upset as I could get with everyone else about not seeing me as having a disability and then not being included, I actually hadn't even accepted it myself or even talked about it. And so that was the journey of. Starting the first te, doing my first TEDx and then writing my first book was this idea of how do I tell part of my story of hiding because my disability I hid for 25 years of my life 

Jackie Ferguson: Ruth. 

Ruth Rathblott: exhausting.

Jackie Ferguson: Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. You know, it's,

we'll get into it, but a lot of us are covering in some

way and, you know, having someone to say, you know what, it's

okay to step out. We need to step out is so important. And, [00:05:00] uh, I know that from our first conversation together, um, that.

Inspiration Inspir encouraged people to say, you know, I'm gonna step out in my, and uncover myself in, in the ways that

I've been covering, and really helps people explore like, how

am I covering right?

And what does that mean?

Ruth Rathblott: And I think about it. Think, Jackie. The thing is that most of us think we're the only ones that are hiding part of ourselves, right? Like, so we sit there and we're like, well, nobody's gonna understand me. No one's I'm gonna be, there's the fear of rejection or judgment that goes along with that part of hiding ourselves and that covering.

And so, yeah, it's how do we start to acknowledge it for ourself first? Like, where is it holding me back? Where's it holding me back from connecting and thriving? That's what the hiding does.

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. So Ruth, let's talk about that a little bit because as I said, so many of us are in

different ways covering, so you know, [00:06:00] I also understand that in certain spaces We might not feel safe enough to let ourselves be

seen. So how do we begin that journey of uncovering for ourselves and and recognizing the way that we are covering or ways that we are

covering, and then how can we be empowered

by it?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, no, so good. And I think you said a few things there, Jackie. Um, the first is. So many of us are hiding and sometimes we know we're doing it right. We're conscious that we're hiding parts of ourselves. And then sometimes it's so rote at this point because we've done it for so long that we don't even realize it.

And I look at it as kind of three levels. There's, we hide things in our past. I. The traumas that we've gone through or things we've experienced, whether it be through family or school or something that's happened to us. So there's a past piece to the hiding. There's a present piece to it in terms of, people share with me, they hide their education, they hide their age, they hide their [00:07:00] relationship status, they hide their sexuality.

Like there's that present piece of what we're dealing with now. People hide. And then there's also a future piece to this, Jackie. People hide their dreams and aspirations, right? So there's this pace space of, I can't tell somebody that I want to do this certain thing, or this is my dream for fear of them rolling their eyes or them saying, oh, you can't do that.

That's not possible. And so we hide it, we hold it back. when I think about that space of hiding. Again,

so many of us are doing it and it's holding us back from connecting and thriving. And yet I put an asterisk almost 

Jackie Ferguson: here, which 

Ruth Rathblott: there are certain places and spaces right now where it

doesn't feel safe to unhide, right.

To share those things. Um, I've gotten calls from different employee resource groups around, um, things that people are hiding, particularly around trans issues, right? Of people feeling not [00:08:00] safe and it. Unfortunately in 2025, it's not safe in certain spaces. Uh, I've gotten calls from Jewish community groups and employee resource groups to say people are starting to hide their stars.

Like that space of it's not. So I call that strategic hiding, like understanding where you feel safe doing that inventory to understand where

you feel safe, um, and trusting your gut that this baby's safe or may not checking out your

surroundings. I think it starts with, to your part of your question, it starts with taking that self inventory of where is it that I may be holding myself back if I'm feeling stuck in my job or I'm feeling stuck in a relationship, or I'm feeling stuck in just overall in my life.

Where am I hiding? Where am I holding back that if I shared a piece of it, I might connect with people in a different way? Um, and I share that. Yeah. Sorry. 

Jackie Ferguson: no, please go ahead.

[00:09:00] Finish 

Ruth Rathblott: share that because I was, with all this

work I'm doing in terms of hiding and unhinging, um, people share so many pieces of this. And I was on a walk with a friend and we were talking, and she's one of those people who has her life altogether, Jackie, right?

We all know those people that, you know, their Facebook is perfect, their apartment is perfect, everything is perfect in their lives. Everything. And yet, when we were starting to talk. She shared that, um, she's actually going through a divorce and she had no idea the weight of hiding that from her family and friends.

That space of. That pressure, that weight of hiding, not wanting to feel like a failure, not wanting to feel like judgment or rejection or even pity that by sharing it out, thinking that was the fear. And so when she shared it, she's like,

Ruth, it feels like such a relief to be able to share it with you because I don't have to keep up this facade or have to make excuses.

I said, [00:10:00] and by you doing that, I then can start to share parts of myself with you so I don't have to keep up the facade of perfect because so many of us keep up this facade of feeling like we need to be perfect, to be taken seriously. And yet that's not how we connect with people. We connect with them over their struggles and their challenges.

'cause that's what we're all going

through. 

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. And that vulnerability increases

connection. That's a hundred 

percent. 

Ruth Rathblott: a hundred percent. 

Jackie Ferguson: Now we're, what do we do when we've

Decided to, you know, have the, the courage to share a thing and it's not received? How

do 

we 

Ruth Rathblott: Mm, 

Jackie Ferguson: protect ourselves or, you know, create a, a barrier

that, you know, protects us? What do we do then?

Yeah.

Ruth Rathblott: And that's sharing part of yourself that that after you've acknowledged it to yourself and then sharing it out is really the second step. And I tell, I share with people I. Think about one person that you trust, [00:11:00] somebody who has empathy, someone who's listens with curiosity and kindness, and someone who is sharing of themselves.

And to your point, Jackie, sometimes people aren't as receptive as we need them to be. Right. And sometimes there's two cases with this. One is we've thought about that thing that we're hiding for a long time, right? We've finally get the courage to talk about it. We expect people to catch up with us, like to be on the same page.

And so sometimes they're not ready, right? So they need a little bit of time. It doesn't mean they're rejecting us. They may just not be ready. They haven't, they don't understand where we're coming from. This is a surprise to them. So how do we allow for a pause? How do we allow for that space for them to say.

I need some time with this. Like I didn't, I don't know this about you. I didn't, I don't understand it. How do we allow them to ask us questions without us getting defensive, right? Like, oh, well you should. 'cause when I would tell people about my hand, it was [00:12:00] basically like it or leave it. Like, either you're gonna totally be in or you have to, you're leaving.

I'm not, I don't, I'm putting up another wall for you. 

Jackie Ferguson: Yeah. 

Ruth Rathblott: Rather than allowing them to ask questions and be curious and say, oh, how was that for you? What was that like as a kid? Like when did you start hiding? Like letting them, because I had been living with it for 25 years, really my whole life. I'd lived with my hand, but they were just getting this new information about me.

So how do we allow for that space? And then the other piece to your, that this question is what about those people who aren't kind right, who aren't receptive, who aren't nice? How do we deal with that? And I. I can tell you, I think my hand is one of my best friends in terms of weeding out people who aren't kind and generous.

And so when I get that negative pushback or that negative, oh, ew, or, oh, whatever that thing is that I react to of people not being kind, I, I use it as a, a [00:13:00] warning sign. Like, Hey, this is a warning. And then I do what for me, what feels right, which is I journal about it. I go to therapy and I also meditate on it, and I realize this is not about me.

Their reaction, it's about them.

Jackie Ferguson: You know, I love what you said, Ruth, about. It's, you know, not taking it personally and internalizing it and saying

something's wrong with me. It's. it allows me to weed out people that maybe shouldn't be in

your space. And I think that just that mind shift, whatever it is

that you're hiding and, and unveiling is so important to empower yourself

to say. This is an opportunity for me to weed out people that

shouldn't be in my space versus internalizing it that there's

something wrong with you or your goals and

dreams are, are too big or too outrageous, or whatever that is, [00:14:00] uh, as part of your identity is something that is rejected, it is a way for

you to 

weed out people that shouldn't be in your space.

I love that. 

That is 

Ruth Rathblott: It is absolutely a way to weed

out. And I think the other

piece is to this puzzle. Jackie is

starting small, right? In terms of what we share with people. Sometimes if we don't know them that well, like how do we start small? So like sharing just something that I. Feels lighter in touch and like in terms of what we need to share with people to kind of test it to be like, are they gonna be kind?

Are they gonna be listening with a curiosity and asking questions that are good questions? And are they willing to share something about themselves? Because this is not a one-way street, it's a two-way street. And that shows up in our personal lives in terms of how we share things and also in our work lives, how we share things like how do we create that space for people to also be able to share.

Jackie Ferguson: absolutely. Ruth, since the last time we spoke, you have been busy. Tell us some more about your latest [00:15:00] projects,

including your new book on Hide and Seek. Let's talk about your time op-ed, and 

anything else that you wanna share with us about what you're doing now.

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, no, it is. I am building a movement on this concept of unhinging. How do we create spaces and particularly workspaces, Jackie, where. There's a safety indifference. There's an idea of how do we appreciate and value and recognize diff people's different experiences, their different perspectives. And I 

think the timing is perfect in terms of what is going on in the

world right now around, uh, DEI specifically.

Um, because there's a definite backlash that many of us are seeing, um, in some ways a. I, I even hesitate to say it's a healthy backlash 'cause I don't think the way it's being commented on, it feels healthy, but I feel like there was a space of how do we allow for inclusion in DEI and some people felt excluded from that conversation.

Right. [00:16:00] So that's a piece of it. I wrote the second book on Hide and seek really as a toolkit for specifically for people who are curious about. In particular leaders, what is hiding? How is 

it showing up in my 

office space? And then what do I do

about it? And so there's an inventory in the book around being able to think about what

is it that you're hiding?

So you have a place to start. When did it really show up for you? How is it showing up in your workspace? What type of hider are you? So I identify four types of hiders and then. What do we actually do with the hiding when it shows up in our workplace? How as leaders do we model that first? Because I absolutely believe, and I take this from personal experience, I wasn't always a leader who un hid well.

Um, and so I had 

a team who didn't trust, um, who left, right, like that, that cycle of leaving or not feeling like they could share when they made mistakes. So leaders have to [00:17:00] model this behavior. Um, and Jackie, I imagine I. The work that you and I both do, we hear a lot of the cliche of, I wanna bring, you need to bring your authentic self 

to 

Jackie Ferguson: Right. Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Rathblott: And yet we're not totally prepared for

that because we don't have the coaches and supports or the leaders who are willing to model what that looks like. So this book is a toolkit on how do you model that? Where do you start? You don't overshare. You're not trying to share everything. You're trying to make yourself human.

You're trying to be human and that's the goal of the second book. And then, yeah, it's, it's creating vo uh, places where I can amplify this message of on hiding. And I appreciate you giving me space to do that.

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. You know, it's, it's so important, Ruth, and one of the reasons for me,

it's, like when I joined the

workforce, your boss. Had all the answers, right? They, they knew what they were doing. They

Had the answers, they were [00:18:00] right.

They, you know, work and personal was totally separate, right? And so then when, when we grow up

in our career and now we are the leaders, that's how we

learned how to lead. So being being able and, and willing and vulnerable enough and courageous

enough to lead differently. Lead with, this is what I think. I don't have all the answers. What do you think?

Right. How should we do it? We

tried it and we, it didn't work the way we thought we got, we've gotta go

again. Right? All of those things are new to

us, right. People my age, certainly,

and, and that's not what's expected by these younger generations

who want to feel a real, authentic human,

as you said, connection with their manager and, and you. I, as a manager, can't say, bring your authentic self to

work if I'm not doing that. [00:19:00] So that's why I think this book is so important because

it's a new way to lead. It's not the way

that we were shown how to

lead, and we have to learn

this 

as a new skillset as part of leadership. 

Ruth Rathblott: A hundred years. Oh my God. Nodding. I feel

like Jackie. Ah, yes it is. Um, I feel like a bobblehead over here. Yes, it is. So that, that, because I think so many of us were taught and remodeled for us a very old school leadership mentality. Right. Uh, to your point, put on the armor. Be strong. Don't share your challenges.

Keep people at arms length. You have to have all of the answers. That in itself was an exhausting model and it's what many of us learned and what we did, and it kept us feeling super lonely and disconnected from our teams and from ourself. 

Jackie Ferguson: Yeah. 

Ruth Rathblott: so to, and to your exact point, the reason I'm even nodding further is there's a transparency that newer to the [00:20:00] workforce is asking for and demanding, right?

Like there's a transparency in terms of leadership, in terms of how we talk about things. I think the gift that, if. Anything came out of the covid space was being able to talk about mental health for the 

first time, and leaders understanding that that was critical. So how do we bring that world, those worlds together of leadership and um, being able to unhide and I call it unhidden leadership.

And it's why I spend my time, some of my time talking at universities. Colleges. I was just at the Yale School of Management in the fall talking to leaders about, because it is a new skill set, it's a different way of thinking, and it's a two-way street. Leaders model that, and then employees need to meet them where they are.

Right? Like it's not just leaders are gonna all of a sudden unhide and think, oh, well my staff doesn't have to do that, or My staff needs to do it, but I'm not willing to do it. It's a two way street. So yes, it is a new model and a new skill set and tool of way of thinking, and it's different [00:21:00] than authentic leadership and servant leadership and all of those pieces.

It's a, it requires you to do a lot of self introspection, what I call self-centered 

Jackie Ferguson: Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Rathblott: you have to center on yourself first.

Jackie Ferguson: That's a hundred percent right. And, and that's not something that we were taught Ruth. 

You know, it's, it's very

separate, you know, how are you doing Great, 

like, right. The, the, your personal life could be 

burning down around you, but oh yeah, no problem. I can get that gun by Friday. Right? 

And

Ruth Rathblott: And I think The, pressure on women even to excels right, with in terms of you're not supposed to cry at work, like you're not supposed to show any emotion. And if you do, you're too emotional, or if you don't, then you're too kind of bitchy or too, you know, difficult. So it's finding a ba, it's constant balance work, and yet it's not human, 

Jackie Ferguson: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Rathblott: like, yeah.

Jackie Ferguson: That's exactly right. And, and then what's required is trust, right? In those

relationships. And, and trust is built [00:22:00] on consistency, um,

and authenticity. And so I

think, 

Ruth Rathblott: Well, and that's what I talk about too in the

time piece. I feel like you And I could talk together so much or talk even over each other. I feel like I'm, I'm so sorry, but like when you're saying things, I'm like, yes. Because in the time piece, what I talk about is how do we create. Safety. Right?

Because that's a big piece of it. And I don't just mean psychological safety. I mean, how do you create safety so that there is that trust built? How do you, how do you own vulnerability? Like in terms of being able to share pieces where you felt challenged? And then I think the critical piece for me, and sometimes something that we glossed over Jackie, is how do we look for silence?

Because some of our employees who may not feel comfortable sharing. How do we recognize that that may be going on? How do we create space for silence, but also how do we recognize silence 

in those conversations? Because it is, it's a, it is absolutely about building trust and it's something that, as we pointed out, many of us didn't [00:23:00] learn in terms of our, what was modeled for us.

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. Ruth, let's talk a little about, um, your perspective on the

current state of DEI in the us. Where do you think we're headed? Right? There's a, there's a lot going on.

there's I. A lot of negativity around what DEI is. I think part of that is related to what you said

earlier is people feeling excluded from the conversation.

And then you talked about part of

DEI being experiences and perspectives, which brings everyone in, right. Which is the way that it's meant to be. So

tell us, what is your perspective on, um, where we're headed with DEI

in the US specifically?

Ruth Rathblott: This is a baked question to tackle Jackie.

Jackie Ferguson: I know. 

Ruth Rathblott: I can tell you that the first few days when some of these, uh, conversations were happening or things were, um, coming out in the news, [00:24:00] I turned off the news and I curled up in bed, um, for the first few days because some of it was really hard to hear in terms of.

How we were talking about people that we weren't allowing for language, which I don't know about you, but I studied part of the Constitution. It sounds like we have a freedom of speech. So like allowing how, how were we dismissing and getting rid of literally getting rid of language that relates to certain groups of people, um, felt really hard and, um, disappointing because there had been a lot of work done.

Up until that point, right? To feel included. And so I took those first few days and I had a really good, I have a really good business coach who said, okay, so what you're gonna do is you're gonna look for the companies where they're doubling down on DEI, where they're, that is part of their core values of diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Like, you're gonna say it out loud, um, you're gonna look for them. [00:25:00] And then you're gonna realize that there is even more work to do now. That this work is so critical and important in terms of when we start to create spaces where people can't be themselves. When we create spaces for people that 

Jackie Ferguson: feel like they have to, 

Ruth Rathblott: um, hide part of who they are, 

this work becomes even more important in terms of how do you create spaces for people to unhide.

Because right now, I can tell you with what I'm seeing, and I don't, I would love to hear

your perspective too, is.

when we clamp down on DEI, or let's just say the letters, right? Diversity, equity, and inclusion, we create spaces where people don't feel safe to be themselves. And so there is more hiding that's going on.

People feel unsafe and they feel like they need to hide.

And as I think about that, I mean, I've seen the shift and I've been in conversations with people who are saying, well, now we're gonna call it just inclusion, or we're gonna call it belonging, or we're gonna call it. I heard someone a year ago and he [00:26:00] said something so prophetic and I took it seriously then, and I take it even more seriously now.

And his name was John Graham and he said, you know what I'm, I'm tired of, and I'm paraphrasing here. He's like, I'm tired of the DEI debate. He said, I'm gonna call it a humanity practice because nobody can argue with that. And I, those words ring truer today than they did even back then. It is about humanity.

How do we create space for people to have their different perspectives and their different experiences where we can hear them and we can value them and appreciate them 

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. 

Ruth Rathblott: and yet, 

Jackie, it's also full circle because when I've been in a, on webinars and in these conversations about the backlash to DEI. 

Jackie Ferguson: Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Rathblott: Disability is still missing from those conversations. And I'm the one writing into the comments often. I'm sorry, where is like, I get [00:27:00] that race is important. I get that gender is important. I get that sexual orientation's important and so is disability still like, and I'm not hearing it. And so it still feels like we're going to a checkbox of the conversations and that's why I think your work is so critical.

Jackie Ferguson: Thank You You know,

I think you're a hundred percent right on that. And I also think that's one of the

ways that we got DEI wrong in our practice, because so many of us, not all of us, but so many of us, were

focused on one

aspect. of diversity or one aspect of where we need to work on

equity instead of understanding the full breadth of what that

means from a human-centric position, And, and then to

understand too. and, and what I've always said is you have to embrace, understand,

and

support your professionals with

[00:28:00] disabilities because that is the group that any of us can

become a part of at any time. 

Ruth Rathblott: Hundred percent. A 

hundred percent. 

Jackie Ferguson: and that's one of the ways when I go into an organization

is to see, you know, do they really have a DEI practice?

Because that's an, that's an

everybody. Identity. right? Whether that's you now or that could be you later as we age, that becomes us.

Right? And so there's, there's so many pieces of that that

just has a through line through all of us.

Ruth Rathblott: Hundred or we could be taking care of 

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. That's exactly 

Right? 

Absolutely. 

Ruth Rathblott: And yet it's funny, Jackie, when you say that too about, um, what, where DEI kind of missed a mark. I think about, you know. That analogy that people throw out there sometimes of eating an elephant, right? You do it one part at a time.

And I think there was such an urgency around some of the things that we were witnessing, [00:29:00] uh, whether it be the death of George Floyd, whether it be on a tail, like there were some pieces that needed to be addressed immediately, 

and yet. There were some people who then started to feel excluded from conversation, like felt.

And I think that's to your point, like I think we had to bite off of the first piece because I think it was so overwhelming and like, wait, what is happening?

And then where I, the misstep to me, just like what you're saying is when we, when we missed some people in that conversation, um, and didn't, didn't allow for them.

And it's a big conversation. It's, I mean, you and I could spend hours talking about it. If not days, 

um, and still not have resolution. right. 

Jackie Ferguson: That's right. The most important part for me is in your

communication, you are being inclusive, right? Which is

part of that, that uh, acronym 

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah. 

Jackie Ferguson: to make sure that everyone is included and it's, it's very easy and something that can [00:30:00] be deeply personal.

Um, to focus on the piece that affects you or focus on the piece that, um, affects family

or, um, the piece that you are personally

passionate about. But I, I think that's where we got. Off track is, is not moving

that conversation to an everyone

conversation. And so that's how exactly, and that's how it could be weaponized and made into this negative

concept rather than the

human concept, which is really

what it is and what we're doing.

Ruth Rathblott: no. That humanity piece it, it grounds me every time. I'm like, okay, how is this a human humanity practice? How it's a human, how is it a human practice?

Yeah. 

Jackie Ferguson: Ruth, tell us a little about the response that you've gotten from your audience and readers, especially as conversations around belonging, DEI and uncovering continue to grow and

evolve.[00:31:00] 

Ruth Rathblott: I think it's so interesting, Jackie, that again, my first book was my Journey, right? This idea of how did I hide for so long and it had reflection questions in it and it and it, but it was really my journey and I. the the second book is, it is, it's much more of a toolkit of, okay, so you've told me about this concept.

How is it showing up for me? And the work I do with companies and organizations and leaders is, let's dig into what is it that you're hiding and. It shows up in so many different ways. I'm still, I do a exercise when I speak Jackie of, I do a postcard 

Jackie Ferguson: and I ask 

Ruth Rathblott: to take the first, I invite people to take the first step when they're, um, after they've heard me talk and to unhide something, um, in an anonymous form.

And what's been painful about that. And I wanna say like, it's funny 'cause I was gonna say exciting, but it's not exciting. It's painful be, but it's exciting

Jackie Ferguson: [00:32:00] that.

Ruth Rathblott: So many of us are hiding parts of ourselves, and yet again, we think we're the only ones. And so when I read these moments for people, whether it be their health, that they're, they're not able to share with a manager.

I mean, I had someone share that they're hiding their cancer diagnosis from a 

Jackie Ferguson: Hmm, 

Ruth Rathblott: that's exhausting and lonely to go through. Right? 

To the person who shared that they're five and a half months pregnant and can't tell their manager in 2025. We're not talking about 1925, we're talking about 2025. I've had women share with me that they hide their, they don't put up photos of their kids at work and they don't talk about their kids because they're so afraid they're not gonna get promoted if they talk about having kids.

This is 2025 language, not again, 1925. Um, or the person who said.

I'm hiding that I hate being married.

Jackie Ferguson: Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Rathblott: when I shared that with a, uh, someone in my network, they said, I know exactly what that person [00:33:00] meant. And I said, what do you mean? And she said, I'm a survivor of domestic violence and that I know what that hiding feels like.

I didn't wanna tell my family, I didn't wanna tell my friends, because the hiding comes from that fear of rejection, that fear of judgment. Whereas a friend recently told me the fear of pity. I don't wanna be pitied for the thing that I'm hiding my health or something in my life. And so we hide and we think it's keeping us safe, but it's actually keeping us small.

It's keeping us hidden shadows. And so that's what this work has been able to start to unpack and uncover for me is. So many, what does it look like and how is it holding us back? And, and that there's a solution to it. There's this powerful choice that we get to make, which is to unhide and what can that look like for you?

And it doesn't have to be, you know, going viral on TikTok and unh, like something about yourself. I used to say, Jerry Springer. [00:34:00] 

Kids don't even know what Jerry Springer is anymore. So I'm like, okay, viral on Buzzfeed. Or on TikTok. But it's not a, it's the idea four steps, right? Like how do you acknowledge it to yourself first?

That's where you start. How do you invite just one person in 

Jackie? How do you then I. Build your community. It's the, it's the power and the work that you and I are doing with companies. It's the power of employee resource groups and affinity groups to have that shared experience. That's where they can be the most helpful is I'm not alone.

Like the C-suite leader I talked to who said, I keep my camera off, my microphone muted

when I work from home. He said, and my staff thinks I am elitist and doesn't, you know, doesn't trust me. And I said, well, why are you doing it? And he said, because I have a child at home with mental health challenges.

I'm afraid for the, the outbursts that people will see. First of all, that's part of our journey at home, but I'm afraid to be a bad father or a bad leader. So I keep my microphone off and I, I invited him to go check out his employee resource group [00:35:00] at work to be like, and he came back and he is like, oh my God, other people are doing the same thing.

Like, I thought I was the only one. So building that shared community, a space where you don't feel so alone and you feel, because I thought I invented hiding. Oh, there's a lot of people out there that do hiding. And then the fourth step, which I think is one of the most powerful, is how do you then share out your story 

so that someone else can start their own journey of unid and see themselves in you?

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. And you know, the thing that I mentioned at the beginning of the conversation,

Ruth, is one, a lot of times we don't realize we're

hiding. So we need that example to

say, oh, you know, what are the

ways that, that I'm hiding or not fully sharing myself? And then what does that look like?

And then how can I begin? The process of unhinging is so

important and you need those examples. Uh, it's so important. 

Ruth Rathblott: and

even if you're not, hi, let's say you're not hiding. And I've

met a couple people who [00:36:00] are like, I'm not hiding anything. I said, that is so great because you then can be there for those of us who 

are right, 

so that you're, because sometimes we make assumptions about,

1. I should say not even sometimes.

Often we make assumptions about people's behavior based on very little information, and yet if we explored it a little bit, whether it be in a meeting or whether it be in our supervision or just checking in on our friends, we might find out there's something that I. They're hiding that they may feel like challenged not to tell us, thinking they can't tell us with that old school leadership mentality.

Um, and so how do we create space for and, and support? Because research has shown, I mean, Deloitte did this study in 2013 and then repeated it in 2023, that over half of us, 60% of us in the workplace are covering a part of ourselves. Hiding. And so if that's true, and I think that number is actually low, it's really low.

Um, I think that it's many more of us, and that's what the audiences [00:37:00] I share my, my work with say is. They're like, yeah, it's more like a hundred percent of people are hiding. If that's true, if, how are you creating space for others on your team or that you manage to unhide? How do you create space for that?

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. So 

important. Ruth, tell us what's next for you. What new projects

or speaking engagements or initiatives are you excited about? 

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah. No, it's about building.

I should, it's about building this movement on unh, and so I am traveling to South Africa in April to bring this in to a global level in person because it's been so much virtual global work in terms of the. Uh, speaking. And then, um, it's also speaking at conferences, women's conferences specifically are really an audience where this message resonates because again, so many of us feel like we have to hold back our dreams and aspirations we hold back, [00:38:00] um, things that, you know, somebody we're afraid of getting judged by.

So we put up this facade. And so that's the next piece. And it's funny, Jackie, I've had several conversations and people asking me what's next? And they're like, what's the third book? And I'm like, can you read the first two? 'cause that would be really helpful. Um, because I think there is a third book. I just wanna make sure that it's ne necessary and needed and that I've learned.

'cause I keep learning. I mean, I just got off the fall call with someone who shared with me about their, the death of a parent that they've been hiding, um, in terms of their emotions and started crying and like, there's a lot of. Hiding going on. And so how do we create space for people to be able to share it?

'cause again, that's what connects us. That Unhinging is the greatest connection gift I know.

Jackie Ferguson: absolutely right. You know, and it's it's so important because

there's just so much that we

experience in life, whether that be personally

or at work, and those things [00:39:00] are

integrated. Even though those of us Gen Xers who grew up in, you know, careers, that it's like your personal life is separate from your professional life, it's integrated, right?

If you're, if you're experiencing stress or a situation at

home, it's going to come out in, you're in your job. Um, and vice versa. And so being able to be honest about that and give

yourself grace and others. those spaces to, you know, just give a little space, a little toggle

to, be able to say, you

know, it's okay this week if you need a moment, um, is so important.

And, and understanding the integration of your full life,

um, is. Is so important. And I think that you speak to that so beautifully for people that feel like they need to have it all together and in one lane or the other, or for a lot of women, since it's women's [00:40:00] history month right now, both lanes at the same time, always

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah. Yeah. 

Jackie Ferguson: is, is is too high a bar.

We need to be able to, one, give ourselves

grace and two, give other space to.

Just take a moment, have a moment, be themselves to share, and, and that's so important. It's so important.

Ruth Rathblott: Well, because think about it, Jackie. I mean, I think it's the big issue of, it's one of the big issues of return to office, right? Because during Covid we could take that moment where we could turn off our camera and mute our microphone and lie down for a second, or cry for a second, or just take a moment for grace that you talked about.

Like we could take that moment without anyone needing to know we were taking that moment. Sometimes it also looked like making sure that our child was 

Jackie Ferguson: Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Rathblott: And making sure they were okay. Um, it also looked like going out for a walk in the middle of the day for our mental 

Jackie Ferguson: Mm-hmm. 

Ruth Rathblott: and making sure that was, you know, [00:41:00] and now with the big issue of returning to the office is we're expecting people to go back to a way that it was before, and yet they've had a taste of what does it feel like for self-care during the day and self-care as part of our life because we were managing so much before.

And so. This is the space. I mean our, and what's why I'm so grateful that you invited me back on is because the conversation has evolved because it was initially about this space of not feeling included, and yet I understand that so differently now in terms of feeling the need to hide who you are and how it impacts how you lead, how it impacts your day-to-day, everything, and how you integrate your full self.

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. Ruth, what is one takeaway or piece of encouragement that you'd 

like to leave our listeners with today?

Ruth Rathblott: Yeah, the upside of un hiding. I think the upside when you start small and you take that risk to own it to yourself first of that space where you [00:42:00] may be hiding that, that work of what is it? What am I hiding? How is it holding me back, and who do I invite in just that one person. is a relief. It is a release.

It is. You get joy back into your life. You get some freedom back into your life. You get to start taking those risks in your life. And I will tell you, Jackie, 'cause I know this firsthand, it allows for connection in such different and interesting ways where people then feel like. Oh, I don't have to be so perfect in front of Jackie, right?

Oh, I can actually be myself. That facade melts away. And so people start to share their own challenges and struggles and joys and successes with you. Because another place we hide in life is when we, I, I don't know about you, but Jackie, I found myself just recently tampering down my successes to a friend because I was afraid of them, right?

And what they would think and how they would judge me. When we do that, then we can't actually celebrate even some of our first [00:43:00] successes. 

Jackie Ferguson: That's true. 

Ruth Rathblott: there is this incredible joy and freedom that come from Unhinging and it is a powerful choice that you get to make. Nobody else. It's your choice. When do you want to, it's you have agency over it.

Jackie Ferguson: I love it, Ruth, that's so amazing. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for

joining me again on this show. You know,

when you reached out, I, I said,

yeah, this would be a great mini episode, right? Because. We've already talked about all the things and there's so many more things. I think we could

do 10 episodes. Um, we, I enjoyed speaking with you so much. Your perspective is just so

important for all of us, and I appreciate your being here. Your insights on uncovering inclusion and, and we're, we go from here is so valuable,

so thank you.

Ruth Rathblott: Thank you Jackie. No, thank you for the space to do it. And thank you for, I know, I thought it was gonna be a mini episode too, and then I'm like, the time is still going. What if, [00:44:00] I hope she's not gonna cut me off at some point. I'm so grateful for the conversation and I know we could talk more and. More and more about this as it evolves?

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely Ruth. Tell people where they can learn more about you

and find out what

you're doing and buy your books and all of the

things.

Ruth Rathblott: Sure. So my website's probably a great place to start. It's ruth rothblatt.com, and then I spend a lot of my time and kind of thought leadership and expertise on LinkedIn. That's where I do a lot of conversations. So if you're interested in this concept of hiding and on hiding, LinkedIn is probably the best place.

Yeah, my books single handedly and un Hide and seek, and the TEDx talk where it all started. 

Jackie Ferguson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Ruth, thank you so much. It's so good to talk to you again. 

Ruth Rathblott: Thank you. Thank you, Jackie. 

Jackie Ferguson: Alright, Javier, we're good. That

was amazing. Of course. Thank you, Ruth.

Ruth Rathblott: Thank you. [00:45:00] 

Jackie Ferguson: Yes.